caBlitz87
FreerollerFreeroller
Joined: 7 May 2021
Posts: 6
Thanks received: 3
7 May 2021 - 3:27pm

Am I out of Luck?

11 replies • Last post

Hi, I recently stumbled upon this forum in search of answers on my rejected withdrawal of $5000.

I was sent a long winded e-mail citing I bet higher than the limit before my bonus was played through, (5 EU or equivalent bet limit) so they confiscated my entire withdrawal and refunded the original $20 deposit. I requested that they sent me a detailed log that showed the bonus amount vs. the real amount on each bet and was told they have 30 days to produce it.

I deposited $20 with a 25% match bonus (30x playthrough on deposit & bonus amount = $750) I made a few deposits that day so I have asked for confirmation that it was indeed credited with the specific deposit that produced the winnings.

Looking through the betting history (which is a bit vague on this site), I wagered $300.80 before I bumped the bet up to $6 CAD. Before going any higher, I placed an additional $1458 in bets.

I do understand the 'breach', even though 6 CAD is still less than 5 EU. My question - is there a grey area here? It wasn't a blatant exploitation of a $5 bonus, I feel like the rejection of the entire withdrawal is a bit underhanded. There were no warnings or pop ups to be mindful of bet amount, and there are two 'bonus information' links only one of which cites the limit.

What would your advice be? Should I wait to see the detailed information before I push any further? Do you think I'm out of luck with this one?

Thanks for all of your help.

caBlitz87
FreerollerFreeroller
Joined: 7 May 2021
Posts: 6
Thanks received: 3
7 May 2021 - 4:30pm
#1

Just for clarity, the grey area I'm wondering about is that on their website terms and conditions, the max bet says this:

g. The maximum amount you are allowed to bet per spin when playing with a bonus is €5 per bet (or currency equivalent) until the wagering requirements of the bonus have been met. This includes double-up wagers after the game round has been completed, as well as purchasing bonus round features in games such as for example White Rabbit.

The legal definition of currency equivalent is:

Currency Equivalent means, at any time, with respect to any amount denominated in Dollars, the equivalent amount thereof in Euro, Sterling or an Alternative Currency as determined by the Administrative Agent or the applicable L/C Issuer, as the case may be, at such time on the basis of the Spot Rate (determined in respect of the most recent Revaluation Date) for the purchase of Euro, Sterling or such Alternative Currency with Dollars.

In their posted terms and conditions, it doesn't reference other denominations aside from currency equivalent, but in the e-mail they sent, the cited this:

g. The maximum amount you are allowed to bet per spin when playing with a bonus is €5 / $5 / £5 / 50 SEK / 50 NOK per bet (or equivalent in any other currency) until the wagering requirements of the bonus have been met. This includes double-up wagers after the game round has been completed, as well as purchasing bonus round features in games such as for example White Rabbit.

The CAD currency equivalent is lower than the EU bet limit. Do I have a case for dispute?

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 9771
Thanks given: 5744
Thanks received: 4940
10 May 2021 - 7:02am
#2

That is a tricky one. They probably have fully intended it to be CAD$5 but unless you missed it, they haven't explicitly stated it in their rules.

"Or currency equivalent" is a dumb statement that they think should be interpreted in a way that does not match the usage of the English language. "Equivalent" implies equality and CAD$5 is not equivalent to €5. Any currency exchange site will tell you that. In fact the one I just checked says the equivalent of €5 is CAD$7.35.

The fact that in their email they stated they apply a 50 SEK (Swedish Krona) limit and not a 5 SEK one because of the value of the currency supports this view. But then again the €5 = £5 = $5 in the same email is the exact opposite. So they are contradicting themselves in one sentence.

Obviously they have not programmed these limits into their games, which admittedly is a rare thing. But it always leaves me feeling like they want to have this excuse up their sleeve to void a win when they can.

So do you have a case? If they put their foot down and stick to their guns then I doubt it. I think you would have to go the route of arbitration or legal options. A lot of this depends on where you are playing and if or where they are regulated. Which casino are you referring to?

Lambino

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing at a new casino.
Post in our forums to earn CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop.

caBlitz87
FreerollerFreeroller
Joined: 7 May 2021
Posts: 6
Thanks received: 3
10 May 2021 - 3:44pm
#3

I had a very thorough look at their rules and it doesn't state anywhere that it is specifically $5CAD, even the link they shared in the e-mail directed to the terms and conditions that said €5 per bet (or currency equivalent) and didn't include the specific $5CAD note.

This was at duelz casino regulated by MGA. I'm not sure what their reputation is like. I've never even heard of a bet limit until now.

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 9771
Thanks given: 5744
Thanks received: 4940
10 May 2021 - 11:26pm
#4

Bet limits are very common at online casinos these days. They are put in place to prevent people from claiming bonuses then loading up and betting the maximum they can including the bonus money with the aim of hitting huge wins. Sadly the vast majority of casinos do not program the limits into the actual games so people regularly break the rules without knowing and invalidate their wins.

If Duelz is Malta licensed that is a good thing because you can at least try approaching the Malta Gaming Authority for a ruling using their online complaint form.

Make sure you clearly state that you read the terms and believed you were betting under the limit because the CAD currency equivalent of €5 is more than CAD$7. And the fact that the game did not stop you from placing the bets further supported your belief that you were playing within the rules.

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing at a new casino.
Post in our forums to earn CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop.

caBlitz87
FreerollerFreeroller
Joined: 7 May 2021
Posts: 6
Thanks received: 3
11 May 2021 - 4:14pm
#5

Thank you for your help. I've put in a complaint, I'll let you know what happens!

CL-Ed

caBlitz87
FreerollerFreeroller
Joined: 7 May 2021
Posts: 6
Thanks received: 3
12 May 2021 - 3:45pm
#6

They were quick to get back to me, I guess the procedures have changed. All B2C licensees are required to have an appointed ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution) provider. They have sent me the contact information to pursue it that way. I sent the casino one more e-mail outlining the unclear terms and conditions, I'll see what they have to say about it then I'll escalate it to their appointed ADR if required.

CL-Ed

caBlitz87
FreerollerFreeroller
Joined: 7 May 2021
Posts: 6
Thanks received: 3
31 May 2021 - 3:49pm
#7

The casino said their decision is final so I'm waiting for a response from the ADR. I finally received the gameplay history and it shows that I made 11 bets at $6 Cad prior to the playthrough being completed, and the total winnings generated from them were $8.40 lol. Let's see what the ADR says.....

CL-Ed

lvblck
Forum AngelForum Angel
Location: The North
Joined: 6 Apr 2016
Posts: 3249
Thanks given: 219
Thanks received: 946
31 May 2021 - 5:05pm
#8

That's truly unfortunate. As Ed mentioned before, I would assume there was a term stating 5CAD not 5eur or currency equivalent. Regardless, some casinos wouldn't block a withdrawal for 11 bets, but of course they have the right to do so. Good luck with the ADR and hopefully you can receive your winnings.

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 9771
Thanks given: 5744
Thanks received: 4940
1 June 2021 - 3:02am
#9

Yeah, you are usually at the mercy of the casino on cases like this. We've seen scummy casinos invalidate people's wins for betting over the limit after they hit a big win, even though they lost loads with the oversized bets (sounds like you did too). On the other hand occasionally we've had casinos still pay out when its an obvious case of an accident.

The big glaring honking elephant in the room that they all want to ignore is this. The rule is in place to deter advantage players or bonus "abusers" who know that mathematically the best strategy is to bet as big as possible to generate a huge win, then switch to lower stakes to lock in the win while completing the wagering requirements. That is a given.

So why then do they:

1. Not program the limits into the software to prevent anyone from doing it?
2. Invalidate wins of players who make a couple of bets over the limit, which no advantage player who reads all the rules, or otherwise sane person would do purposefully?

Answer: because it saves them from paying out the occasional unwitting big winner.

End result: The only people caught by these rules are not the advantage players who know the maths and read all the rules to make sure they don't break them - i.e. the actual target of the rules. They are the punters who accidentally break the rules without knowing any better.

Good luck with the ADR, who/what is it?

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing at a new casino.
Post in our forums to earn CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop.

zaLambino
Gold PlayerGold Player
Lambino's picture
Location: SA
Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 716
Thanks given: 356
Thanks received: 639
1 June 2021 - 9:15am
#10

Nothing worse than a casino denying your withdrawal for something so silly as this especially when its the type of error that they could actually write in the system to assist players not breaking but its like they set these hidden traps on purpose just because they can

vomvom12

devomvom12
Slots FanSlots Fan
vomvom12's picture
Location: earth
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 1037
Thanks given: 916
Thanks received: 990
6 June 2021 - 4:33pm
#11

absolutly a hidden trap

Post new comment

Have something to say? Agree or disagree? Tell us what you think!

Login using your social network account
Or log in with a Casino Listings account

Login or register to post comments

Registering for an account takes less than a minute and you will be brought right back here to comment afterwards.