usMom4151
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20 October 2020 - 11:37am

Refusal of payout at Uptown Aces

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I think other people have had this problem but Uptown Aces is declining my payout due to bet size. I never saw any rule about not being able to bet a certain amount only a certain number of times and I even went back and checked after they declined my payment. I really hope someone can help me with this.

usbarbadosslim93
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20 October 2020 - 12:20pm
#1

Oh no! I had the same issue years ago with a bonus term. Your odds of getting your winnings are low, and it sucks that they do this. I'd just follow up and ask how many times you went over and see if they'll do anything for you.

usReckless Bets
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20 October 2020 - 1:39pm
#2

Wait so did you violate the max bet rule? What do you mean by betting a certain number of times?

The max bet rule is literally the first paragraph on their bonus terms page. Maybe you were only looking at their general terms page?

usMom4151
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20 October 2020 - 3:05pm
#3

So I didn't have a bonus when I was making these bets. They said that I could only wager bets over $10 31 times.

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20 October 2020 - 3:37pm
#4

That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard. If you weren't using a bonus then your bet size shouldn't matter, and 31 is such a weird number.

Do you have correspondence directly from the casino you can post here?

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20 October 2020 - 5:36pm
#5

It sounds to me if you weren't using a bonus they're trying to say that shifting bet sizes could be tied to a "betting system", which casinos don't typically don't allow. That rule makes no sense though, as betting systems never beat the house edge and they typically put you further behind the horn.

I really want to know why they're being so picky about that bet size if you don't have a bonus, though. This is weird.

usReckless Bets
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20 October 2020 - 5:38pm
#6

If you don't have an active bonus then a casino shouldn't care what "system" you use since all games have a heavy house edge anyway like you say, and if you're not trying to get through playthrough, what's it matter what your bet size or pattern is? I don't see anything in Uptown's terms regarding bet size when there's not a bonus being used.

Either OP is misinterpreting what the casino is telling them or is not revealing the whole picture in their messages, or Uptown has gone out of their mind.

auCL-Ed
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20 October 2020 - 10:33pm
#7

This sounds very odd. Here is the rule from the bonus terms page:

Quote:

In the interests of fair gaming, there are limits on the maximum bet sizes you can place during the playthrough of any bonus including cashback offers (10 being the maximum unless SPECIFICALLY stated otherwise). Betting above $10 during a bonus playthrough will result in any promotion winnings voided.

The operator of Uptown Aces have become pretty notorious around here for denying winnings across all their casinos due to breaches of this rule. They will do so without any consideration, even when it is obviously a mistake or something done in a hurry to finish off the wagering requirements that has caused the player to lose far more than they would if they had not breached the rule. Unfortunately even though they do not prevent you from breaking the rule while playing, they have no mercy if you do. You break it, they take it.

Now you're saying that you weren't playing with a bonus. There is nothing in the general terms and conditions about limiting your bet size, nor is there anything about betting over $10 more than 30 times. I wonder if you misinterpreted that message or it was badly worded to you? I'd say what is more likely is that they are saying that you bet over $10 a total of 31 separate times. If you didn't claim a bonus - and note that term quoted above includes any cashback paid - then they have no reason to deny payment based on that rule, so they should pay you.

There could be complication though if cashback is involved, or you had a bonus previously and didn't zero your balance, or a bunch of other things. I'll send you a private message and see if we can help you out by getting in touch with them on your behalf.

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21 October 2020 - 12:36pm
#8

Ed's the man. He'll do whatever he can to try to get them to play ball with you.

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22 October 2020 - 6:21am
#9

We're in touch with Mom4151 and the casino and hope to get to the bottom of this one soon. I'll post an update here as soon as we know more.

barbadosslim93

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auCL-Ed
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23 October 2020 - 11:10pm
#10

Well it looks like this is yet another case of a player unintentionally voiding a huge win by accidentally breaking the big bet rule at the Deckmedia group of casinos.

What we know is this:

Mom4151 indeed claimed a 150% bonus with a $25 deposit. At some stage after this she won around $30,000. Whether that was before or after the bonus wagering was completed is in dispute. The casino says it was before, Mom4151 says after. We're trying to get a play history to work it out. The casino refuses to provide it to us, so we're waiting on Mom4151.

Right before submitting the withdrawal, Mom4151 has made 31 spins for $50 each. In these spins she has therefore wagered $1550. Only 3 of the spins paid back anything and none of them were the $30k win. In fact the 31 spins resulted in a net loss of $1388. Given the timestamps show that these spins were made right before the withdrawal, it is likely that Mom4151 had already made a big win by then.

As per usual with this operator, they do not care about context. The "big bet" rule is supposedly designed to deter advantage players who know that the mathematically best way to attack a bonus is to bet as big as possible at the start until there is a big win, then reduce bets to lower variance and complete the wagering. For this casino group, the rule serves another purpose: a second chance to deny payment to anyone who accidentally breaks it.

No sane player who won that amount would intentionally jeopardise it by knowingly betting over the limit. So we know this was an accidental breach, and the numbers show that Mom415 most likely lost way more money back to the casino than if she had kept playing at smaller bets. Furthermore, as we have told this operator numerous times in the past, the casino's systems are deficient in that they do not prevent a player from breaking this rule accidentally. Therefore it is our belief that, irrespective of whether the bonus wagering was complete before these bets were made, the player should be paid. We have seen that other casino groups do waive this rule in similar circumstances and pay the player.

However unless Mom4151 can prove with a play history that the bets were made after the bonus wagering was completed, the casino does not care and she's not going to be paid.

Once again we have to remind everyone to read and understand the rules of a bonus before it is claimed. If you aren't prepared to do that or can't understand the rules, don't claim a bonus - especially at the Deckmedia group of casinos. Sadly there are opportunistic and unregulated casino operators like this one that will use any excuse they can to void a payment, and there isn't really anything you or we can do about it.

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24 October 2020 - 2:34am
#11

Wow that's pretty outrageous, especially for such a spectacular win from a small deposit.

Assuming the bets were made after wagering was done, it makes absolutely no sense to continue enforcing a max bet rule (and conflicts with their max bet rule wording)... Though I've seen some casinos do this -- I saw someone have trouble making a Casino Extreme withdrawal on another site due to large bets after the bonus wagering was done. It also seems like Vegas Crest limits bets to $5 even after wagering if you used a bonus at all. This makes no sense to me because if it's withdrawable funds it's essentially yours, why limit bet size?!

RTG casinos do let you see spin history but don't tell you in any simple way I'm aware of at what point you finished wagering requirements.

I will never play at Uptown Aces because a site with such predatory rules tilted against the player doesn't deserve my money. People make mistakes and casinos should be more understanding, especially when the large bets lost money.

auCL-Ed
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25 October 2020 - 10:47pm
#12

Well the debate is over whether the big bets came before or after the wagering requirements were met. These are the most frustrating and sad cases we deal with.

The latest update is that casino is now claiming that the player made a win of roughly half the $30k, then later increased bets and won more. We still don't have a wager or balance history to either confirm or deny that so we're kind of in limbo waiting.

If that were true I would think an acceptable solution would be for for the casino to void the amounts won after the big bets started, and have but still believe that Mom4151 should be paid the initial big win pending wager completion at smaller bet sizes.

On a tangent, I've seen people miss out on thousands in winnings because they continued playing after completing the wagering on a free chip at RTG casinos, which automatically reduces the player's balance to the maximum win off the free chip when its done. Common sense tells anyone with half a brain that the wagering is complete and funds are free of any conditions, but if you continue playing you cannot win any more. And if you do they won't pay you. Nonsensically if you withdrew your winnings then redeposited, costing the casino money in transfer fees, they would be obligated to pay.

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usbarbadosslim93
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26 October 2020 - 11:08am
#13

Anything they can do to stick you. Sucks that we find ourselves in that kind of situation.

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