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10 February 2018 - 8:03pm

Miami Club - Again

4 replies • Last post

Hi all,

I am embarrassed to be coming back a second time about the same casino! I was one of the people several months ago who had a decent win here that was declined because I failed to read the Terms and Conditions size limitations on bonus size bet limits (thinking it was the same management as at Lincoln and Liberty Slots, where they do not have such rules), so my payout was declined - after a $20,000+ win. I did not plan to play with them again on principle, but ultimately I decided that there are such limited options for US players, and I love these specific games, so I rationalized that it was my own fault for not reviewing the terms carefully. While I didn't like their treatment, I at least figured they had a legitimate reason that was verifiable. Plus, I had a few successful payouts at Lincoln Slots and Liberty Slots, so I decided they were trustworthy enough. (Is it truly the same management as Miami Club? I assumed so, because my casino rep appears to be the same across all three.)

Anyway, I decided to play there last night. I have payouts pending with Lincoln and Liberty Slots and did not want to be tempted to redeposit, so deposited a smaller amount with Miami Club. For once, I did rather well - rare here since my initial declined win. I deposited $200 and obtained a $170 bonus amount with a $8,000 play-through wagering requirement.

I played for about three hours. For the $170 bonus, I was of course careful to play beneath the bet limits for bonuses, and that played itself out pretty quickly. On the remaining $200, I went up and down many times on the slots. At one point I was up above $5,000. Mostly I hovered between $1,000 or a little less and $3,000. My bets (once bonus had run out) started at $12.50 per spin, then went up to $25 per spin. Toward the end, I was doing $50 a spin down to my planned stopping point.

Finally, when I was a bit below $4,000, I submitted a cash out for the max at $2,500. The cashier system said I had not met my wagering requirements -- that I'd only wagered $288.32 (!) and had more than $7,000 more to go. There is absolutely no way this is possible....again, I was averaging $25 per spin, played for probably more than three hours, and went up and down several thousand dollars multiple times during this period.

On live chat, they told me it looked like I had one additional bonus I hadn't played out (the "last one"). That didn't make any sense to me. They said it was because of the "sunday bonus club." I asked what that was, reminding them that it was Saturday (just barely past midnight), with my deposit actually made on Friday, and they said "oh yeah - sorry - it's the Saturday bonus club." (Maybe that was the name of the bonus?) I explained my bets and the timing and asked them to check my actual game play. The representative came back and said my original wager requirements had been $29,000. I said no - it was $8,000. They said the $8,000 was only for the last bonus - but I still had a wagering requirement from the previous one (?). (That also doesn't make sense as I had played the last balance down to zero before making another deposit, but even if it had been the case, that doesn't explain how it could say I'd only wagered $288.32.)

Ultimately they said they would check again when it was calmer and send me an email. Strange, but I was ready to go to bed, so I said fine. The email that came through later said they hadn't found any discrepancies from what they said earlier, but management was now reviewing.

I don't really know what recourse I have here - what they are saying is totally impossible, but how do I prove it? I kept asking them to explain, based on my game play, how what they were saying even made sense. Did they really think I went from a $200 deposit to over $5,000 betting less than $300 in total, and if so, shouldn't they be able to point to the big "win" I must have hit to get there within a few spins? Ed, I don't know what information they show in terms of the actual game play when you have gotten involved historically, but I've asked them to send me whatever data they have. However, this is so detached from the facts of what happened, and their questions aren't really responsive to mine, so I'm having that "I'm being scammed" feeling that I can't shake.

They still need to get back to me, of course, and maybe it will be resolved, but I wanted to see if anyone else has had this problem....or can give me any comfort that these guys truly are on the up-and-up! If they are the same management as Lincoln and Liberty, that also makes me nervous, because I have balances and pending payouts at both. It seems like this group may have a monopoly on the games that I most love, unfortunately. But in this case, I think the options are that (1) there is some sort of human error where they just haven't looked into it deeply enough, (2) there is something unethical going on to avoid paying out, or (3) there is a technological glitch in the system. None of these is super reassuring. And I've played over enough years that I'm pretty attuned to when I've met or exceeded my play-through requirements, and familiar with how it all works, so I'm pretty certain I didn't make some newbie mistake. (Plus, after my prior experience at Miami Club, I'm especially vigilant when I play with any bonuses there.)

Sorry for the long post. If nothing else, I wanted to warn others, as I'm a bit mad at myself for even trying this casino again after my first experience. But I'd love to be proven wrong and am still hoping for the best! Thanks.

3 members gave thanks for this useful post: CL-Ed, Dina Aliquo, bossulo

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10 February 2018 - 9:08pm

Sad to hear it from you, after I read your story, of course they must pay you. I hope CL-ED can negotiate the case with them and hear good ending of your case. thank you for your valuable experience.

1 member gave thanks for this useful post: Eponine6

zaDina Aliquo
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11 February 2018 - 12:46pm

Thank you very much for your comments, I most definitely appreciate the details and information you have added regarding these casinos.
I have registered at these casinos and have made deposits at Liberty Slots Casino but I have never had good game play at all. I have never been able to go over my initial deposits. But I always see massive wins on the live feed. I tried many different slots they offer (which I do enjoy playing) but still nothing!
I am a tad concerned about this casino in particular....there's something I have never quite been comfortable with there, I cant put my finger on it though.
I really don't know if I will ever deposit here again.

1 member gave thanks for this useful post: Eponine6

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11 February 2018 - 7:15pm

Thanks for the responses. I heard back from them, and they said it was from a former bonus play-through requirement. I thought I had played it out and reduced to zero, but it's possible I only went down to $1.15 or so before the last deposit (I had it in my head that as long as you go down below $5, the bonus play-through clears itself for the next deposit, but apparently it needs to go under $1....ugh). The $288.82 still made absolutely no sense, but clearly I'm not going to get a different answer. Too many things don't make sense, and having dealt with this management group before, I hadn't found them to be particularly user-friendly or worried about keeping their players, so I'm not going to waste my time yet again.

Maybe I should have fought more, but by this point I had basically considered it a foregone conclusion that I would not be paid, so I went in again to try to meet the play-through requirements on my remaining balance. Of course, the funds were gone very quickly. I played the entire $4000 on Cool Bananas and did not get a single bonus spin during that whole run -- not once. Dina, that's the type of thing where I can relate to what you're saying. Granted, I have had wins on all three of these casinos (though Miami Club seems to find reasons not to pay), but at particular times -- generally AFTER a win when I've cashed out a portion but have remaining balances -- it almost seems like things tighten up to the point that winning anything more is fundamentally impossible. I'm willing to go pretty deeply in the hole sometimes, but when playing for hours without a single bonus spin across multiple games, a part of me does wonder if it's truly a fair set-up, especially when these groups do not appear to be subject to audit or monitoring.

I will say that sometimes I've seen my name across the live feed, and those have been legitimate wins, so it's not like the casino made those up. But there are times when it really feels like a switch has been flipped and I cannot win a dollar to save my life! Maybe I need to start playing at other casinos again and see if those seem any better or it it's just the nature of the beast. As always, I lament the fact that US players don't have access to some of the ones that seem the most trustworthy.

At any rate, having now had two experiences at Miami Club where I've been burned on the bonus rules (after playing for years on casinos with bonuses and never having a problem with it!), I'm leery of continuing here...and if I do it at all, given the few options available for these specific games, I may forego the bonuses altogether. It just seems they are stacked against the player and potentially designed to avoid payouts. Given how much I am willing to "invest" (not sure that's the right word!) for the fun of playing, I tend to think it should not be this difficult to get paid on the few occasions where wins happen. The casinos are still are way ahead of the game, and it really sours me on the ones that happily take my money, but require triple backflips to get it out again. Sadly, I don't even get all that excited about wins anymore, until they are actually sitting in my bank account.

Anyway, thanks for listening!

1 member gave thanks for this useful post: CL-Ed

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19 February 2018 - 1:18am

Sorry I missed this one Eponine6, and doubly sorry that it didn't work out for you. I would have thought you should be able to see your play history which should show what your balance was when you deposited. Though from memory with WGS casinos they don't let you see transactions older than 2 weeks in the system - you have to contact support and request that info.

Miami Club uses the same software platform as Liberty Slots and Lincoln Casino, it is known as WGS Tech. So the games and software are all the same, probably also the banking system, and by the sounds of things the customer support too. Basically the operator just more or less rents a casino from the platform provider, but takes care of the marketing, bonuses, and other admin, and they share the profits.

1 member gave thanks for this useful post: Eponine6

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