0
$ £
plroko1979
FreerollerFreeroller
Joined: 21 Feb 2014
Posts: 4
Thanks given: 0
Thanks received: 0
1 April 2014 - 1:21am

Crazy Vegas Casino confiscate 8350 Euro - it is real crazy

11 replies • Last post

Hello
I turn to you for help and solve the problem I have with Crazy Vegas Casino.
Two years ago I played a lot in the aforementioned casino games and made the deposits for a total amount of Euro 3,396.28.
On 7 February this year Irina received from Radczuk the following email:

Quote:

Hello Grzegorz,
tcvr03330340
Hope this email finds you well.
My name is Irina and I am your VIP Relationship Host at Vegas Partner Lounge Online Casinos.
I am very happy to announce that after reviewing your account I have been assigned as your dedicated VIP Host moving forward.
Should you have any questions or queries you would like me to look over to make your gaming experience with us that much more enjoyable, please do not hesitate to contact me.
I added 50 euro free to your account to take your mind off reality and enjoy some well-deserved entertainment with us!
And on top of this on your first deposit will receive a 100% bonus up to 150 credits.
And on top of this I will upgrade your account to Gold lounge.
Please login and enjoy with my compliments.
The month of February is full of activities, but the most anticipated is the launch of a new game called Avalon II, which promises to be by far the most breathtaking online Slot game of the year.
I am really looking forward to building a successful relationship with you and hope I can bring a new and fresh approach to your gaming experience at Vegas Partner Lounge.
Hope to hear from you soon and have a great week!
Best regards,
Irina
Vegas Partner Lounge

The above-mentioned e-mail does not contain words such as "promotion", "bonus" compared to 50 Euro, which were donated to me (it is only to define 50 Free), nor is there wording: "terms and conditions apply".

Below paste the advertising offer, which is presented on the website of this casino:

It shows clear information on exclusive promotions and gifs for players VIP status - and I'm such a player / g Irina Radczuk have become.
When I wagered that 50 “little” more times than I should( I wager it 1470 times, I should do it 50 times) and then I decided to withdraw their winnings - 8500 Euro.
The day after winning the order I received a letter of congratulations from Irina Radczuk, where she was also given the amount of my winnings. (I attach to this email too)
Then, at the request of the department dealing with the payments had yet to send scans account for the purpose of updating my current place of residence.
After successfully verifying my account waiting for the transfer to Skrill, transfer received on Valentine's Day and he sang in the amount of 150 Euro.
In order to clarify the situation immediately contacted the live-support act casino.
The first version was that the entire amount was credited to my account, few minutes late, I talked with pit boss Abigail below I put a piece of that conversation:

Quote:

Abigail: Gregorz, as per the system here it states that you failed to meet the wagering requirements for the cash-in
Me: i try to do something for 13 hours
Me: Joking)))
Me: i count my wagering few minutes ago
Me: are you sure
Me: if yes i have a proof
Me: that you cheating me
Abigail: Gregorz, The finance team has stated that you did not meet wagering for the 8350 and therefore it was removed

Full chat conversation is attach to this email

Whenever I contacted live- support act casinos cause confiscation of Euro 8350 was different from the previous one , below mention that the reason I was given :
- Convert loyalty points
- Withdrawal limit to 150 Euro - 50 Euro because that got a no deposit bonus
- Do not perform the required rotation X50 - the most bizarre version because it turned X1472

Below I will present my conclusions:
- casino is breaking the law by granting me with no regulation and no information that apply to any of the 50 Euro , and after winning creates regulation and limits in order to avoid the payment of my winnings.
- Please justification for the use regulating bonus no deposit for the bonus I received - VIP_BONUS (BM) - these are completely two different bonuses, as in the past, I made a deposit in the amount of approximately 3400 Euro - the phrase " no purchase is required" is not in the If no use, because at this point the Rules of the casino, there is no determination of the time - that is when I made the deposit. In addition to this in the rules is the provision that limited to 150 Euros are won obtained from the following types of bonuses : no deposit bonus as well as a complimentary bonus. VIP_BONUS (BM) I received a completely different type of bonus should be accompanied by individual regulations - in correspondence with the casino you join , please pay attention to how many times I asked Irina Radczuk (my VIP HOST ) to send me those records - but unfortunately I never received it , the only answer was to continually rely on section 5.5.2 - no deposit bonus , a few days later, I saw that Irina Radczuk has marked my email address as spam . I wonder if it's the norm to treat the players VIP status at this casino.
- Below you will paste a fragment of the Rules of the casino to show that VIP bonus and certainly there must be other conditions and regulations of the bonus no deposit :

2.3.5 Bonus events can not be forfeited That are :
2.3.5.1 Initial Deposit Bonuses
2.3.5.2 No Deposit Bonuses
2.3.5.3 VIP Bonus
- If he says casino staff were the same , and have the same regulations it is interesting that in the official rules of the casino are separated.
- The provision for bonus no deposit refers to players who have not made any purchase ( because no deposit is required) . In total, I made a deposit in the amount of about 3,400 euros , or according to your assessment of this provision is important for depositors, VIP status - and introduces such limits.
- During the second or third conversation with customer service , I was clearly informed that the finance department made a confiscation because I did not perform the required rotation - and that information I received from pit boss Abigail - whether a casino could still may change or choose the justification of such an action ? Is it consistent with the law and is commonly used ? I think it is simply breaking the law , and the casino should bear the consequences of such action(I have chat conversation with this situation)
- The Rules of the Loyalty Lounge recently made corrections to the status of loyalty and the benefits offered very interesting is to remove the bonus of 50 euros for the players with the highest status , I wonder what regulations and limits were in the application . A lot would explain pass by the casino conditions of the bonus – o don’t received any information about this changes, I think that was important because at new rules I don’t have access to VIP support and I lost VIP membership – very interesting is my conversation with casino support - I was informed that despite the changes in the rules I d still the possibility of using the VIP Host, and my VIP Host Is still Irina Radczuk – I don’t received any answer for emails – which I sent to her(I received only reading confirmations), 3 weeks ago.
- The analysis of the interviews that I carried out the operation can be drawn , among others, a very interesting conclusions:
- Player with highest loyalty level, which don’t made deposit at “particular day” and convert loyalty points for example - have the same rights and apply it the same limits as the player who just registered and uses the no deposit bonus . In my opinion, the greatest absurdity and perhaps precedent. Do you meet up with a similar situation , the players counted among the elite , making the large deposits of May limited to the payment of 150 euros ...
- Paragraph 5.5.2 at Casino terms and conditions should have the following contents so that you can in any way be used as the reason for the confiscation of winning in my case:
That is original paragraph:

Quote:

5.5.2 Because NO purchase is required, and the winnings returned could be sizable, the total winnings on all NO-DEPOSIT bonuses are limited to $200/£100/€150 maximum. Should the Player win in excess of $200/£100/€150 the excess will be removed from the Players account before fulfilling the cash-in

And I think that should look like this:
5.5.2 Because No purchase was made at particular day and the winnings returned could be sizable, the total winnings on all NO-DEPOSIT bonuses are limited to $200/£100/€150 maximum. Should the Player win in excess of $200/£100/€150 the excess will be removed from the Players account before fulfilling the cash-in

Is it possible the institution of legal proceedings - also wanted to bring a claim for compensation for lost time and health ( for phone calls I had to pay almost 300 euros) ?

For many years, playing in online casinos and never say such a thing never happened to me
I turn to you for help and order Crazy Vegas Casino payout my winnings .

Conclusions:
- In the rules of the casino there is no record of the VIP bonus is the same as a complimentary bonus.
- There is also no definition of what exactly is a no deposit bonus, a common term "because no purchase is required" - refers to new players who have not made any deposit.
- In the rules of the casino does not have a specific time when the deposit was made.
- To be able by law to justify the confiscation of my winnings, points Rules should have the following contents:

* 5.5.2.1 All free money, bonus or promotion which player receive from casino and at current day player don't make a deposit are named - no deposit bonus. – no deposit bonus definition.
* 5.5.2.2 All winnings generated from no deposit bonus are limited to $200/£100/€150 maximum. Should the Player win in excess of $200/£100/€150 the excess will be removed from the Players account before fulfilling the cash-in.

No deposit bonus definition by Wikipedia:

Quote:

A No Deposit Bonus is a type of online casino promotion that offers visitors money to open a new gambling account. The casino places an amount of money into an account so that the new customer can play games with real money. This gives the user a more realistic idea of how the gaming site actually works under real conditions. The term implies that the customer does not have to deposit any money of their own to get this bonus. No deposit bonuses are generally limited by a time limit (most commonly 60 minutes), after which the player can choose to withdraw their winnings over and above the initial bonus amount.
The customer may typically have to deposit and play through a set amount of money before being allowed to withdraw their bonus or bonus winnings.
The no deposit bonus is not to be confused with the match bonus, which requires a deposit by the player. No deposit bonuses vary from casino to casino and players should inspect the respective casino's terms and conditions to ensure a proper understanding of the bonus options.

VIP bonus is exclusive kind of bonus granted by casino to player with individual terms and conditions. VIP bonus exist at Crazy Vegas Casino as a proof I paste fragment terms and conditions:
2.3.5 Bonus events that cannot be forfeited are:

2.3.5.1 Initial Deposit Bonuses

2.3.5.2 No Deposit Bonuses

2.3.5.3 VIP Bonus

2.3.6 The above points are subject to the casino management's discretion at all times.

2.3.7 Suspicious cash-ins will be audited.

VIP bonus is not Complimentary Bonus because is there is no record on this subject in the rules of the casino.
VIP bonus is not no deposit bonus – because they are separate at casino promotional terms and conditions.
50 Euro which I received is not no deposit bonus(5.5.2 – Because no purchase was required - but purchase was made so that is not true) – because I made many purchases for total sum 3,396.28 Euro.
50 Euro which I received are named VIP_BONUS(BM).

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 7200
Thanks given: 3356
Thanks received: 2715
1 April 2014 - 6:14am
#1

Hi Grzegorz. Your post was very difficult to understand so I have tried to format it to show clearly what I think you are quoting from elsewhere and which parts are your own words.

What I think happened is this (feel free to correct me if this is wrong):
1. You were offered €50 free by a VIP host.
2. You wagered more than what was required and won €8500.
3. You received an email congratulating you for your big win from your VIP host.
4. When you withdrew from the casino, they gave you €150 and kept the rest because it was over the limit that they will pay for a no deposit bonus.
5. Someone in the support team gave you the wrong explanation and said it was because you had not wagered enough. This was later corrected by someone else who referred you to the win cap on no deposit clause in the terms.
6. You are disputing whether it was in fact a no deposit bonus and are saying instead that it was a "VIP bonus" which has no limits on withdrawals.

Term 5.5.2 that you quoted is very clear to me and describes exactly your situation. The casino limits wins when they give away free money because this sort of thing can happen. That is exactly what the term says, and it says it applies to "ALL no-deposit bonuses":

Quote:

5.5.2 Because NO purchase is required, and the winnings returned could be sizable, the total winnings on all NO-DEPOSIT bonuses are limited to $200/£100/€150 maximum. Should the Player win in excess of $200/£100/€150 the excess will be removed from the Players account before fulfilling the cash-in

I sympathise with you, and can understand your frustration but I don't think the casino has broken their own rules. The casino definitely made a couple of mistakes, namely emailing you and congratulating you without first checking whether the win was made with the bonus money and secondly telling you the withdrawal was reduced due to not meeting wagering requirements. This indicates lazy staff who have assumed things and not checked before replying to you. I also think that they should clearly inform you of any terms and conditions applying to the free money when they give it to.

However you clearly acknowledge that you received a bonus, but you're trying to say it wasn't a no-deposit bonus because you have deposited in the past, and you want it to be called a VIP bonus. I don't agree with that and while I feel very sorry for you and hate hearing about things like this happening, I can't agree that the casino has broken their rules and/or stolen from you. I do agree though that their staff could have handled it a whole lot better.

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing.
Every comment you make in our forum earns you CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop!

bybelaff
True PlayerTrue Player
Location: Belarus
Joined: 13 Feb 2012
Posts: 885
Thanks given: 231
Thanks received: 339
1 April 2014 - 9:42am
#2

Thats so sick when players hit big from NDB's and can not withdraw this money then Sad

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 7200
Thanks given: 3356
Thanks received: 2715
1 April 2014 - 10:29pm
#3

I agree. It is horrible luck to have such a huge "lucky" win on a free chip. Any other day he would have been able to keep the money.

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing.
Every comment you make in our forum earns you CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop!

plroko1979
FreerollerFreeroller
Joined: 21 Feb 2014
Posts: 4
Thanks given: 0
Thanks received: 0
2 April 2014 - 12:01am
#4

I paste table of contents document which i made, there was many reasons, Crazy Vegas don't have clear terms about no deposit bonus - "because no purchase is required" - that regulations is for players which don't made any deposit,
I deposited 3400 Euro at past... That document is to large(31 pages) so i don't paste it here - i can send it to email.
Table of Contents

Table of Contents 1
1.Reasons of confiscate my winnings: 2
1.1 Natalie – I don’t meet wagering – 21.02.2014 2
1.2 Juliana – I won from free bonus 3
1.3 Pit Boss Abigail – I think that is the best – real crazy 4
1.3.1 Chat conversation from 20.02.2014 – reason is wagering requirements 4
1.3.2 Chat conversation from 22.02.2014 – reason – no deposit bonus and withdrawal limit 6
1.3.3 My conclusions 10
1.4 Lea – loyalty points convert as a reason 11
2.Very interesting things from Crazy Vegas Casino support and, an something about “clear rules”… 13
2.1 Natalie try expalin Abigail 13
2.2 “Particular day” and VIP player = first time players without deposit by Lea 13
2.2.1 My conclusions 16
2.3 Lian made new regulations and said “The terms and conditions is more than clear”… 17
2.4 Still waiting for Irina response – chat conversation with Cass 20
2.5 Pit Boss Abigail again 23
2.6 Wagereing requirements is real hard, wager more than fourteen hundred times – by Pit Boss Natalie 23
3.Chat conversation with Marco and Pit Boss Rachel - 24.02.2014 26
3.1 My conclusions 31

And reasons of confiscate:
- Natalie: Grzegorz, you did not meet the wagering requirements as per our terms and conditions.

- Juliana: I do not know what LGA is. Your winnings were limited due to the fact that you won from a free bonus. We have rules regarding a free bonus. Whatever you win from a free bonus you receive, you will be limited to 150 euros. That is a set rule in our casino

- Abigail: Gregorz, as per the system here it states that you failed to meet the wagering requirements for the cash-in
- Abigail: Gregorz, The finance team has stated that you did not meet wagering for the 8350 and therefore it was removed

- Abigail: Gregorz, let me clarify one thing here for you, even if you had made 10 deposits on that day, your cash-in would still be restricted as you had won of bonus money. Lea tried to paint a different picture for you by stating that you had not made a deposit on that day. - "that day" - but that is not exist at Crazy Vegas Terms and Conditions...

- Abigail: Gregorz, I unfortunately can not go on debating this issue with you, as no matter which context you put it in, your cash-in size has been restricted and you will not receive the confiscated balance

- Lea: Has you have been told before, the funds were removed because you won from the loyalty points that were credited to you

And that is very funny conclusions when supporty add "particular day" to terms and conditions:

- Me: VIP players which don’t make a deposit and convert loyalty points at current day have the
same limits and terms like new players without any deposit

- Me: is it true ?

- Me: last email

Lea terminate chat and I wait for continue our conversation 2 hours

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 7200
Thanks given: 3356
Thanks received: 2715
2 April 2014 - 5:54am
#5

Grzegorz, this is ridiculous.

If you truly think that the words "no deposit bonus" only apply to players who have never deposited at the casino ever before, which is contrary to just about every casino anywhere that ever gives their existing customers a free chip, then get a Maltese lawyer and contact the Malta LGA. But I am fairly sure that you don't believe that at all, and you are just looking for a loophole to try to make the casino pay you. I am always more than willing to help people with a legitimate dispute with a casino but I just don't see it in this case.

You have been posting this same stuff around at several different sites for a couple of months now and you keep getting told the same thing but you refuse to accept it. The rules are clear. It sucks that the one time you had to win big was while you were playing with a free chip and the casino made it worse by giving the wrong explanation at first. I would be angry about that too. That does not mean that they have to pay you.

I have read the full transcripts that you posted on Casinomeister where you said to the chat operator that you were going to contact the Malta LGA. If you really think that you can argue your case successfully then that is what you should do. If you have not already done that then why have you waited for so long, a couple of months after this happened? You have all the documents and the transcripts, so go and submit a complaint and see what they say. If, as I suspect, you have already contacted the LGA and they ruled against you then you are just wasting everybody's time.

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing.
Every comment you make in our forum earns you CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop!

plroko1979
FreerollerFreeroller
Joined: 21 Feb 2014
Posts: 4
Thanks given: 0
Thanks received: 0
2 April 2014 - 12:35pm
#6

Please read terms and conditions:
"because purchase is no required" - do you see anything about time when deposit was made ?
Crazy Vegas Casino support use "particular day" to expalin that regulation, but it not exist at terms and conditions.
Terms and condiction about no deposit bonus should look like this to be clear:
* 5.5.2.1 All free money, bonus or promotion which player receive from casino and at current day player don't make a deposit are named - no deposit bonus. – no deposit bonus definition.
* 5.5.2.2 All winnings generated from no deposit bonus are limited to $200/£100/€150 maximum. Should the Player win in excess of $200/£100/€150 the excess will be removed from the Players account before fulfilling the cash-in.

Here it does not matter whether I think so or not - here simply in terms of the rules.
In addition, the behavior of the casino, which commits errors customer service indicate nervousness, which I do not think this proves that the casino keep a fair-play, no nothing itself does not have to complain about and the rules are clear and legible.
If you think my complaint funny it is interesting how you can identify changing from hour to hour grounds for confiscation of fairly large amounts of money ...

ushope777
Forum Angel
hope777's picture
Location: Minnesota USA
Joined: 1 Jan 2011
Posts: 12524
Thanks given: 1271
Thanks received: 903
2 April 2014 - 4:47pm
#7

Exactly why I am afraid to play with that "free" money I am sent. If the ONE time I am going to hit the jackpot happens when my max withdrawal is 150 dollars I would cry forever.

Hope777

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of the things, and no good thing ever dies.
Shawshank Redemption

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 7200
Thanks given: 3356
Thanks received: 2715
2 April 2014 - 10:17pm
#8

I don't think that your complaint is funny. I used the word ridiculous in the sense that it is absurd and obviously not genuine. You are trying to use an argument that you know is not right. I can appreciate that English is not your first language so I can understand why you may not have caught the nuance of what I was saying.

Your suggestion about adding "on the particular day" to the terms would not work. You could deposit one day and bust out, then ask support for a free chip and if they gave it to you, under your suggested rule it would not be a free chip because you already deposited earlier on the same day.

Look, this is simple. You did not make a deposit to receive the €50 bonus that your VIP host gave you. They gave you €50 free. If you accept that it was a bonus, then it could only be a no deposit bonus. You know that. I know that. The casino knows that and everybody else reading this knows that. Common sense dictates that when the casino gives you a bonus that you did not deposit to trigger, it is a no deposit bonus, regardless of whether you may or may not have deposited in the past. I really cannot believe that you are even trying to argue that point.

If it was me I would have argued that the VIP host did not inform me that it was a bonus and that I thought it was a straight up cash reward with no wagering requirements, win caps, or other conditions attached. Once again I advise you to contact the Malta LGA if you have not done so already, and take careful note of what I have said here.

1 member gave thanks for this useful post: barbadosslim93

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing.
Every comment you make in our forum earns you CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop!

usbarbadosslim93
Forum Angel
barbadosslim93's picture
Location: Michigan
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 9408
Thanks given: 561
Thanks received: 695
3 April 2014 - 12:57am
#9

Brilliant summary of the situation, Ed.

Agree 100%

plroko1979
FreerollerFreeroller
Joined: 21 Feb 2014
Posts: 4
Thanks given: 0
Thanks received: 0
3 April 2014 - 3:04am
#10

When it comes to "Particular day" this is not my suggestion, this wording was used by the casino support, and Pit Boss did it :
 Me: and made ​​deposits at Crazy Vegas for the total sum of 3500 Euro is you thinks is enough?
 Me: so do you still think that is a normal no deposit bonus?
 Lea: On That Particular day, you did not make a deposit

With this formulation can also be drawn, among others, a very funny conclusion:

Which VIP players do not make a deposit and convert loyalty points at current day have the
same limits and terms like new players without any deposit.

As for the 50 Euro, which I received as a gift it was only due to the fact that not all two years ago I lost at the casino almost 3500 Euros.
The assumption was that the casino lose those 50 Euro, and as before I do again a lot of deposits.
The problems started at the time when I won ...

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 7200
Thanks given: 3356
Thanks received: 2715
3 April 2014 - 6:56am
#11

Sorry if I have confused who said what. At least it makes sense now that I understand that the chat operator said it because she was obviously responding to your attempt to twist the wording of the terms.

I'm not really sure why you want to argue this with me. I'm not the casino and I don't have your money. What is the point? I don't agree with what you are saying and the casino obviously doesn't either.

I've given you the best advice I can which is to contact the Malta LGA whose roles is to mediate disputes and if you read my previous post carefully there was a massive hint in there about what you should say. I suspect however that you have already tried that. Am I right?

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing.
Every comment you make in our forum earns you CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop!

Share this