0
$ £
ushope777
Forum Angel
hope777's picture
Location: Minnesota USA
Joined: 1 Jan 2011
Posts: 12526
Thanks given: 1271
Thanks received: 903
11 January 2016 - 10:34pm

Netflix: Making a Murderer

16 replies • Last post

Anyone watching? This show is all the buzz in my area, because it took place in the neighboring state of Wisconsin, U.S.A. Some of our now-local news people were directly involved in covering this trial.

I am four episodes in, and what I have witnessed so far makes me literally SICK and is the biggest miscarriage of justice I have ever witnessed! If watching makes me as angry as I become (almost to the point of wondering if I can continue to watch!) I cannot imagine what the people directly involved felt and how they stayed calm and didn't end up killing someone themselves. I know that sounds dramatic, but this show brings out every emotion you have ever felt - well everyone except happiness and joy.

I guess I would say it is still important to view in the name of awareness if you can stomach it.

It brings up the question in my mind that if this is ONE case where these obvious miscarriages of justice go on, there are probably many, many more across the entire country. Our justice system is definitely broken.

It is bad enough what they do to the accused adult in this documentary, but what really burns me is what they did to a sixteen year old learning disabled boy with a very low IQ. His "confession" was completely and totally coerced and filled in by those who interviewed him without his mother and/or lawyer present. It is sickening what they do to this young man who doesn't begin to understand the implications of their accusations - he doesn't even know what the word "inconsistent means," and worse, his mother does not either. They targeted a person with the lowest intelligence and used him and destroyed his life to get their way and get the adult in this case (Steven Avery). The judge has to be in the prosecutions' pocket, because he believes the interrogation was "the norm," and saw nothing wrong with it.

The only people with an iota of common sense on this program are the two defense attorneys to Steven Avery. Even the young man's attorney is completely worthless and clearly took the case for his own notoriety - a worthless person!

Ugh. I planned to write like three sentences to ask if anyone is watching. lol I could go on forever, but I will not give anything else away and keep watching while I wait and see if anyone else is watching.

This case hits close to home.

Hope777

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of the things, and no good thing ever dies.
Shawshank Redemption

usbarbadosslim93
Forum Angel
barbadosslim93's picture
Location: Michigan
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 9432
Thanks given: 562
Thanks received: 697
12 January 2016 - 3:50pm
#1

I haven't seen this YET, but I am trying to get my wife to watch it with me tonight. The justice system here is definitely broken, and you can see many of the sentences given out end up benefiting companies that the judges or other legal officials have stakes in.

Down where my mom and dad live people who had drug or alcohol convictions would be placed on probation and had to go to a center to take random breathalyzers and urine tests for $5 a pop. On holiday weekends they would have to go twice a day... turns out that one of the judges in the county had a stake the company and it was all completely legal! The same thing goes on throughout the rest of the country and I am pretty sure the companies running prisons are in cahoots too....

1 member gave thanks for this useful post: hope777

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 7213
Thanks given: 3368
Thanks received: 2734
13 January 2016 - 12:09am
#2

I started watching this last night but fell asleep half way through the first episode. Not that it was boring, I'm just becoming an old man! lol

I watched another great series a few years ago along similar lines called The Staircase. Its well worth a watch too if you like true crime documentaries.

Slim the privatisation of America's prison system seems to me to have a lot to do with it. Plus the fact that you guys throw people in jail quicker than almost every other country on earth apart from The Seychelles of all places.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate (sort by the 2nd column).

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing.
Every comment you make in our forum earns you CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop!

ushope777
Forum Angel
hope777's picture
Location: Minnesota USA
Joined: 1 Jan 2011
Posts: 12526
Thanks given: 1271
Thanks received: 903
13 January 2016 - 12:40am
#3
barbadosslim93 wrote:

I haven't seen this YET, but I am trying to get my wife to watch it with me tonight. The justice system here is definitely broken, and you can see many of the sentences given out end up benefiting companies that the judges or other legal officials have stakes in.

Down where my mom and dad live people who had drug or alcohol convictions would be placed on probation and had to go to a center to take random breathalyzers and urine tests for $5 a pop. On holiday weekends they would have to go twice a day... turns out that one of the judges in the county had a stake the company and it was all completely legal! The same thing goes on throughout the rest of the country and I am pretty sure the companies running prisons are in cahoots too....

Oh, definitely. Prisons are BIG BUSINESS. I have a lawyer friend who always says that.

I guess just today Steven Avery hired more lawyers and more appeals with the Wisconsin Courts. I want to binge watch this show, but I just haven't had the time and I don't even think I will have time this weekend. Perfect thing to do on a frigidly cold weekend day. Hibernate and binge watch Netflix. This show is just the buzz around here - I hear it mentioned on the radio every single day on my way to and from work.

Hope777

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of the things, and no good thing ever dies.
Shawshank Redemption

ushope777
Forum Angel
hope777's picture
Location: Minnesota USA
Joined: 1 Jan 2011
Posts: 12526
Thanks given: 1271
Thanks received: 903
13 January 2016 - 12:44am
#4
CL-Ed wrote:

I started watching this last night but fell asleep half way through the first episode. Not that it was boring, I'm just becoming an old man! lol

I watched another great series a few years ago along similar lines called The Staircase. Its well worth a watch too if you like true crime documentaries.

Slim the privatisation of America's prison system seems to me to have a lot to do with it. Plus the fact that you guys throw people in jail quicker than almost every other country on earth apart from The Seychelles of all places.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate (sort by the 2nd column).

Oh, wow. I love watching crime shows, and I was searching the other night on my phone, just for ideas, and The Staircase popped up. Now I really have to check it out. Thanks!

Do your best to stay awake, CL-Ed! lol I do know the feeling - after only two days back to work I am completely exhausted and wish I could go to bed right now and it's not even 7p.m.

Hope777

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of the things, and no good thing ever dies.
Shawshank Redemption

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 7213
Thanks given: 3368
Thanks received: 2734
13 January 2016 - 6:08am
#5

lol I'll try again tonight.

Yes the Staircase is a great show as the film crew have access to the entire case from almost immediately after the crime happens. You see what goes on the whole way through which is very insightful. Without wanting to give away too much, I didn't agree with the verdict based on what I saw. I read that there have been appeals on both sides since and further intrigue with a cop on the case jailed for stuff he did on a number of separate cases. It is still ongoing I think. There is also a slightly whacky sounding "Owl theory" which you should look up after watching the series. It really is one where true life is stranger than fiction.

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing.
Every comment you make in our forum earns you CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop!

usbarbadosslim93
Forum Angel
barbadosslim93's picture
Location: Michigan
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 9432
Thanks given: 562
Thanks received: 697
14 January 2016 - 6:50pm
#6

I started watching this last night. My first impressions were that the guy was a weirdo for sure and that I thought the show was kind of slow to start. Then when things started unraveling I became instantly more interested in the show... by the end my wife and I couldn't believe how bad he got screwed on the attempted rape thing.

Now I have only seen the first episode, but I have to assume that the screwing is going to keep ongoing with him being charged with murder for some reason. Can't wait to see how that plays out.

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 7213
Thanks given: 3368
Thanks received: 2734
15 January 2016 - 1:18am
#7

You're on the right track there slim.

I've seen 4 or 5 episodes now and all I can say is that you couldn't make this stuff up. The 16 year old nephew subplot is just bizarre. The episode I watched ended with the revelation that one of the cops had phoned in a query on the license plate for the missing car two days before it was supposedly found which suggests he was looking at it at the time.

I've already seen enough reasonable doubt after the issues discovered with the other evidence, the videotapes of the coerced confession, and the stuff that was claimed to have happened being impossible given the lack of corroborating physical evidence to know that you could not possibly convict the guy. It will be interesting to see how it ends up. I'm not optimistic for him though.

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing.
Every comment you make in our forum earns you CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop!

ushope777
Forum Angel
hope777's picture
Location: Minnesota USA
Joined: 1 Jan 2011
Posts: 12526
Thanks given: 1271
Thanks received: 903
18 January 2016 - 6:38pm
#8
CL-Ed wrote:

lol I'll try again tonight.

Yes the Staircase is a great show as the film crew have access to the entire case from almost immediately after the crime happens. You see what goes on the whole way through which is very insightful. Without wanting to give away too much, I didn't agree with the verdict based on what I saw. I read that there have been appeals on both sides since and further intrigue with a cop on the case jailed for stuff he did on a number of separate cases. It is still ongoing I think. There is also a slightly whacky sounding "Owl theory" which you should look up after watching the series. It really is one where true life is stranger than fiction.

SPOILERS AHEAD IF YOU PLAN TO EVER WATCH THE STAIRCASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'VE BEEN WARNED. Smile

Oh my gosh, I binge watched this show - what a page turner! And I had to read everything I could find about it after it ended, and I did come across the bizarre owl theory. This show was so addicting, I was watching it on my phone, at home, away, and wherever I could fit in a few minutes until it was over. It was on YouTube and I was about 2 hours in when it disappeared, so I had to purchase the remaining episodes on Amazon, because I was in a panic. lol

I love those defense attorneys, but I just don't know if he did it or not. I don't feel we still have enough information to know for sure. And the coincidence of the German death on the staircase - did that one give him an idea for the staging of a crime or coincidence? IDK. Also, what a loving family. The suspect comes across as somewhat eccentric, but is he a murderer? I don't know. The fact that his entire family stands by him, including Patty, except the one daughter and the sister also speaks to his character. I never cry, but I did cry the first time he held his grandchild. I kept leaning toward his innocence, yet...............?

That Deaver blood analysis "expert" was a joke from the start! I cannot believe the jury based their first decision on this man's testimony. His entire demeanor and his ludicrous "experiments," were laughable and if I was a juror, I would have discounted every word he said and "experiment" he showed! I hope he ends up in prison for ruining so many people's lives. What a dork. lol The man just kept conducting his little experiments until they fit the results for what the prosecution wanted, and that should have been obvious to anyone with a brain.

I thought sure he was going to die upon being released, but it looks as if he is going to trial again. I like what he said about what do poor people do? He could afford such a thorough defense that the average person could never dream of being able to afford.

Thanks for recommending this show! I will continue to follow when it goes to trial again.

Hope777

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of the things, and no good thing ever dies.
Shawshank Redemption

ushope777
Forum Angel
hope777's picture
Location: Minnesota USA
Joined: 1 Jan 2011
Posts: 12526
Thanks given: 1271
Thanks received: 903
18 January 2016 - 6:42pm
#9
CL-Ed wrote:

You're on the right track there slim.

I've seen 4 or 5 episodes now and all I can say is that you couldn't make this stuff up. The 16 year old nephew subplot is just bizarre. The episode I watched ended with the revelation that one of the cops had phoned in a query on the license plate for the missing car two days before it was supposedly found which suggests he was looking at it at the time.

I've already seen enough reasonable doubt after the issues discovered with the other evidence, the videotapes of the coerced confession, and the stuff that was claimed to have happened being impossible given the lack of corroborating physical evidence to know that you could not possibly convict the guy. It will be interesting to see how it ends up. I'm not optimistic for him though.

i am SO outraged at what they did to Brendan. And any judge in his right mind would have realized how much they coached this poor "slow" kid!!! Just take the ONE instance where they said "what did you do to her head?" He said cut her hair, a few other things, and took a LONG time to say what they wanted him to say which was shoot her in the head. Also, when he tried to write out the truth he was once again told he was lying and "we cannot help you if you do not tel the truth." which meant "we cannot help you unless you continue to tell this lie," and he was SO impressionable. I actually felt hate toward his lawyer who was worthless. And his mom does not have the mental capacity to help him, because I believe her IQ is about the same as his.

This show makes my blood just boil. Poor Steven Avery, but to do what they did to a boy who is way too cognitively disabled to understand anything that is happening is something they should burn in hell for. Seriously.

Hope777

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of the things, and no good thing ever dies.
Shawshank Redemption

usbarbadosslim93
Forum Angel
barbadosslim93's picture
Location: Michigan
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 9432
Thanks given: 562
Thanks received: 697
18 January 2016 - 6:51pm
#10

I have still only made it through the one episode (been catching up on films I'm behind on), but I did see an episode of Dr. Phil last week on the subject. Apparently I guess there is a bunch of evidence left out of the documentary that makes it look like the dude did it, but didn't get a fair trial. Something along the lines of them finding the guy's sweat on a trunk tab (which on the show said that they can't plant) as well as some other forensic evidence.

All this made me do is want to watch the show further as there is apparently two completely different sides that make it compelling to see what is actually true and what isn't.

ushope777
Forum Angel
hope777's picture
Location: Minnesota USA
Joined: 1 Jan 2011
Posts: 12526
Thanks given: 1271
Thanks received: 903
18 January 2016 - 7:17pm
#11
barbadosslim93 wrote:

I have still only made it through the one episode (been catching up on films I'm behind on), but I did see an episode of Dr. Phil last week on the subject. Apparently I guess there is a bunch of evidence left out of the documentary that makes it look like the dude did it, but didn't get a fair trial. Something along the lines of them finding the guy's sweat on a trunk tab (which on the show said that they can't plant) as well as some other forensic evidence.

All this made me do is want to watch the show further as there is apparently two completely different sides that make it compelling to see what is actually true and what isn't.

True that we can NEVER EVER trust the media or even a documentary film maker. The film maker of the Stair Case was, without a doubt, slanted toward the defendant's innocence, and it was obvious throughout. So it's always good to do our own research. One of our local DJs, plus she is on a TV show called Twin Cities Live covered this entire trial when living in Green Bay during that time. She has posted additional videos on the FM 107 radio site, but I have not watched those yet. She also said we only see snippets when we watch these documentaries and what the film makers want us to see. I do believe they are doing a nice job with the documentary, though. I cannot imagine taking on such a project.

I would like to say a few more things, but I cannot due to the fact I am further along in my watching than you are.

I can say, because I heard it on the radio a few week's back that this documentary has garnered more attention on the case and Steven Avery is once again filing appeals. There is also a petition on Facebook asking Obama to pardon Steven Avery, but he has no power to do that, since this was not a federal crime.

This entire story breaks my heart. Those parents have suffered such heartache and if Steven Avery is indeed innocent he must feel worse than Job from the Bible. I also heard whisperings on the radio a few separate times that some thing Avery's brother actually committed the crime. We haven't heard anything in the documentary about his brothers, at least not much.

Hope777

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of the things, and no good thing ever dies.
Shawshank Redemption

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 7213
Thanks given: 3368
Thanks received: 2734
19 January 2016 - 9:48pm
#12

On the staircase, I think you summed it all up hope when you say you can't know if he did it. I agree. Therefore you must acquit. It is obvious that in these cases the benefit of the strong doubt is not going to the accused which is sad.

I still haven't finished the Avery one so I'll stay quiet on that until I have seen it all.

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing.
Every comment you make in our forum earns you CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop!

usbarbadosslim93
Forum Angel
barbadosslim93's picture
Location: Michigan
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 9432
Thanks given: 562
Thanks received: 697
20 January 2016 - 6:42pm
#13
CL-Ed wrote:

On the staircase, I think you summed it all up hope when you say you can't know if he did it. I agree. Therefore you must acquit. It is obvious that in these cases the benefit of the strong doubt is not going to the accused which is sad.

I still haven't finished the Avery one so I'll stay quiet on that until I have seen it all.

I totally get a lot of heat for having that same view. If there isn't 100% proof that someone did something, you can't send them away to prison. I had voiced my opinion that I couldn't convict Casey Anthony back several years ago because there was the possibility that her mom had searched something about hiding or disposing of a body (or something, I don't recall exactly nowadays) and was lambasted at work. Turns out the girl ended up going free because the jurors thought like I did.

It's interesting to see both sides continuing to press their sides in the Making a Murderer case. I did read this piece from Dan Abrams, which does have some interesting points.

ushope777
Forum Angel
hope777's picture
Location: Minnesota USA
Joined: 1 Jan 2011
Posts: 12526
Thanks given: 1271
Thanks received: 903
28 January 2016 - 11:30pm
#14

There is yet another really good crime documentary out there called The Jinx. The Jinx is about the life of Robert Durst who is a very wealthy man accused of killing at least three people, including his beautiful, young wife and medical student, Kathleen. He did go on trial for the murder of his neighbor, and even though he dismembered the body (the head was never found) he got off on this murder.

There is a fictional account of his time with his wife called All Good Things with Ryan Gosling and Kirsten Dunst.by Andrew Jarecki who Durst ended up calling after seeing the movie to agree to the documentary. It is chilling to say the least.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1175709/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4299972/

Hope777

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of the things, and no good thing ever dies.
Shawshank Redemption

ushope777
Forum Angel
hope777's picture
Location: Minnesota USA
Joined: 1 Jan 2011
Posts: 12526
Thanks given: 1271
Thanks received: 903
28 January 2016 - 11:32pm
#15
barbadosslim93 wrote:

I have still only made it through the one episode (been catching up on films I'm behind on), but I did see an episode of Dr. Phil last week on the subject. Apparently I guess there is a bunch of evidence left out of the documentary that makes it look like the dude did it, but didn't get a fair trial. Something along the lines of them finding the guy's sweat on a trunk tab (which on the show said that they can't plant) as well as some other forensic evidence.

All this made me do is want to watch the show further as there is apparently two completely different sides that make it compelling to see what is actually true and what isn't.

Yes, with any of these shows we have to understand they may be unbalanced as it is with anything we hear from the media. I still haven't decided if Avery is innocent or guilty, but I do not believe Brendan is guilty of a single thing. Those confessions are so ridiculous. I can't believe ALL the lawyers and the judge can't see this when the common person can glaringly see this.

Hope777

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of the things, and no good thing ever dies.
Shawshank Redemption

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 7213
Thanks given: 3368
Thanks received: 2734
29 January 2016 - 1:35am
#16

SPOILERS AHOY! Pirate

I have now watched 9 out of 10 episodes and it went where I thought it would - sadly predictable. I saw nothing that would change my mind that there was ample reasonable doubt to acquit Avery. The conviction of the nephew was a complete joke as his confessions were clearly coerced and nonsensical. I read the article you posted slim, but I thought it was inaccurate on several points that contradict what I recall seeing.

The prosecution's explanation of how the murder happened was preposterous given the lack of any kind of evidence that suggested that the woman even entered the trailer or the garage. There was no blood or DNA or anything else in the bedroom, then they changed their story to say he shot her in the garage. Again no blood or DNA, just a bullet that appeared weeks or months after the place had already been searched, shortly after the cops that weren't supposed to go in there did. IIRC the garage had not been cleaned and they found deer blood from previous hunting trips there. So what, are they suggesting that he meticulously cleaned everything up, then spread dust all over the place, but made sure to leave the deer blood? That he was smart enough to do that but dumb enough to park her car on his own property? That doesn't even pass a basic test of common sense.

The car key was likely planted and the fact that the cop called in a license plate check on the car 2 days before it was found was glossed over. He had to have been looking at it at the time, so why did he just let it go? Where was he at the time? It doesn't make sense at all. Whatever happened, it clearly didn't happen like the prosecution asserted either way, and its highly likely that the cops have added their own little bits of "evidence" in order to stitch up a man they believe was guilty.

I found it particularly galling that the slimy prosecutor (fat guy with the moustache and the Mickey Mouse voice) used the "bedroom theory" to convict the nephew even though there was no evidence of it at all, after he had dismissed it himself in the Avery trial. And his statement that "reasonable doubt is only for the innocent". Puke.

Of course it is possible that Avery may well have committed the crime in some other way and different location, but based on the evidence and long list of problems with it, I can't believe that he was convicted. I found the dismissed juror's comments about how only 3 out of 12 thought he was guilty initially to be pretty telling. When you think of that and then consider the guilty verdict on one charge but not guilty on the other, it suggests to me that there was a disagreement and a compromise reached by the jurors. I just don't know how you could be convinced by someone to totally change your mind like that. Surely if 7 of 12 thought not guilty and 2 more were undecided, there is a huge amount of "reasonable doubt" right there.

One thing I also noticed was during the sentencing was the judge's comments about "his crimes" increasing in severity as he got older. He must have done something else when he was younger which has caused the cops to clearly have it in for him.

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing.
Every comment you make in our forum earns you CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop!

Share this