usNos33parv
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11 June 2019 - 12:26pm

CafeCasino.Lv refuse to pay $10300 winning

12 replies • Last post

Hello,
I was referred by a member at Casinomeister.com to this site .
I kindly ask the owner of this site for help with this scandal .
According to the CasinoMeister member , this casino is part of the Bodog
and I was told that the owner of this site may be of great help

Here is the complaint as written in GamblingGrumbles and CasinoMeister :

I have been a player since Aug 2018 and I had no issues getting paid.
I think I was paid over $40000 during that period.
My account with them was fully verified.

On Feb 2019 I won , playing exactly the same as I played before, $10300 .

They brought a term that says that the casino reserve the right to avoid winnings if they decide
the play was not recreational .

They brought this term after asking for more documents which I sent.
The reason above was given on the phone and also as reply to GamblingGrumbles complaint
as can be seen in the link below :

https://www.gamblinggrumbles.com/reports/cafe-casino_is-winning-a-t&c-vi...

I played games that count towards the wagering .
I want to mention a sentence I was told on the phone that I already got paid over $37000
and how dare I still complain as if they are angry of me winning to much

Here is the link for CasinoMeister :

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/cafecasino-lv-refuse-to-pay...

auCL-Ed
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17 June 2019 - 7:57am
#1

First up apologies for the late reply. You post got sort of lost in our anti-spam system and was waiting to be approved for publication. I only just saw it now. I have approved your account so it won't happen again.

Just to keep everything on the same page I'll quote what you said at Casinomeister:

Quote:

As to the play pattern , I think it was about 300% bonus and the deposit was around $80 I went to the roulette ( allowed game toward wagering) and bet the whole balance on around 4 numbers and won.

I moved to slots (because roulette counts only 5%) called AS THE REEL TURN 2 and bet around $20 a spin and most of the money was won during the wagering in the slots so I reached over $10000 from the high spins in slots and of course the initial roulette win.

After I completed the wagering, I continued to play for couple of weeks multiple games like 3card poker, slots, blackjack

This is the clause I presume that the casino is using to deny payment:

Quote:

6.4. Bonus programs are intended for recreational players only. Professional players or players considered, in our sole discretion, to be abusing the bonus system by any means may have bonuses revoked and be subject to further sanctions. Bonus abuse may be defined as (but not restricted to) clients cashing out for the purpose of re-depositing, depositing on top of an existing balance, or creating new Accounts that they are using themselves. Sanctions may be in the form of increased rollover requirements or loss of bonus privileges altogether for the offending Account as well as any linked Accounts. We reserve the right to restrict eligibility for special offers and bonuses when necessary. This includes but is not limited to placing geographic restrictions on match bonuses due to bonus abuse.

On the face of it I'm fairly sure whacking the $300+ on a single roulette spin then immediately switching to slots would have set off alarm bells in a gameplay review, even if you were playing slots at $20 a spin. It's a classic bonus beating tactic that maximises EV and reduces time wasted. No doubt you already know that.

The only thing to go on really is that their anti "bonus abuse" term is fairly open ended, actually it's kind of old fashioned now that I read it. Due to complaints of this nature many other casinos now state the exact percentage you may not drop your bet size below after a big win (such as 10% the previous bet size or something), or even more commonly they limit the wager size while on a bonus to a specific number (eg $10 max) so that you can't load up on a single spin like you did.

Unfortunately they aren't licensed anywhere that I am aware of any more. They used to be under the Kahnawake jurisdiction until the KGC cut off any casinos that still accept American players a few years ago. So there is no official mediator or dispute resolution process that we can call on.

That said we've dealt with a number of cases with this group over the years and I'm struggling to think of one involving a recreational punter that didn't get paid. However of the ones with similar sorts of situations involving players like yourself, our success has been variable. Sometimes they will pay out when we intervene, sometimes not. I'll get in touch with them and see if there is anything we can do but I have to be honest and say upfront that I've a gut feeling that it is unlikely they will change their mind on this one.

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devomvom12
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17 June 2019 - 10:47am
#2

Nos33parv that was exactly what i thought when i read that you bet your whole balance on 4 numbers at
the table won big and moved immediately from that low wagering counting game (only 5%) to high wagering counting slots (100%) and bet $20 a spin...and that clearly looks like prohibited playing
tactics to the casino which breached their anti "bonus abuse" term...
i am sorry for your problems but i think there is nothing you can do like Ed already said...

usNos33parv
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18 June 2019 - 12:59pm
#3

Thanks for your reply and comments
I truly believe I should be paid since I did not violate any of the casino \ bonus terms.
All the games I played were allowed, despite the fact they dont like the idea that I got lucky and won.
$10300 its a big amount for me and I don't wish to give up .
I do hope you be able to get a respond from them and convince that my win was legit and they need to be fair and respect it

devomvom12
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18 June 2019 - 1:26pm
#4

for sure that is a huge amount of money...i never won that much myself. so would
try not to give up as well. the second fact beside terms and conditions is that they have no licensed
at all . any way here are two websites where you could also open a complain....maybe that give
you a biger chance to get your money at the end. good luck

https://www.askgamblers.com/submit-complaint

https://thepogg.com/submit-complaint/

auCL-Ed
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19 June 2019 - 12:59am
#5

I've contacted them and I am waiting for a response.

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usReckless Bets
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23 June 2019 - 2:33am
#6

I understand why the rule exists, but to me what's troubling is that it seems completely subjective. Like Ed says, sites that say you can't bet with 10% of your balance or hard max bet sizes clear up the ambiguity and go a long way to making it an open or shut case.

I won a bit off CafeCasino (they seem to have the most extreme deposit bonuses in the casino group) and they eventually cut me off from bonuses (understandable) but also their reward points (nonsense since it's based on coin-in, same at any land or online casino, and I should still be eligible). Haven't played there since. I prefer Bovada, because despite lack of bonuses, they have very generous withdrawal limits should I ever actually hit it big.

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auCL-Ed
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25 June 2019 - 11:28pm
#7

Ok, as I expected they are not going to budge on this one.

They are maintaining that it is a clear case of bonus abuse. While I hate the term "bonus abuse" I can see their point of view in that you used the mathematically best strategy and obviously knew exactly what you were doing. I've been there and done that myself in the past. You're obviously a smart person, and I have little doubt that you read the open-ended term before you played and were aware of the risk you were taking.

That said, I still don't like the term as it is written as it gives the casino too much wiggle room to deny a payment at their discretion without clear parameters as to what constitutes "abuse". Of course they say that they don't want to give bonus hunters a load of clues on how to exploit their bonuses. I've asked if they could clarify and improve their "anti bonus abuse" term to be explicit in what exactly is and isn't allowed. We shall have to wait and see if anything comes of that.

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usButtBongoFiesta
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26 June 2019 - 6:51pm
#8

Also on Cafe Casino they have daily "tournaments" where you can win small prizes but what they don't tell you is that you're competing against players on Slots.LV too. No where on either site do they let you know that. So for example you might finish 4th in a tournament on Cafe Casino but because 2 of the players ahead of you are playing on Slots.LV you lose out. When it comes to those daily tournaments Slots.LV and Cafe Casino are running a scam so they don't have to pay out those bonus rewards.

EDIT: Same thing is happening at Ignition/Bovada since they run the tournaments too and have the same schedule. So Slots.LV/Cafe Casino and Bovada/Ignition are all scamming people who play those daily tournaments.

usReckless Bets
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26 June 2019 - 9:45pm
#9

Why are these sites running pooled tournaments a scam?

The progressives on all their games are also pooled letting the amounts rise higher and faster, is that a scam too?

usButtBongoFiesta
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26 June 2019 - 9:52pm
#10
Reckless Bets wrote:

Why are these sites running pooled tournaments a scam?

The progressives on all their games are also pooled letting the amounts rise higher and faster, is that a scam too?

What the hell do progressive jackpots have to do with the tournaments? Nice whataboutism. You work for them or something?

usReckless Bets
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26 June 2019 - 11:18pm
#11

They have about as much to do with it as pooled tournaments somehow being a scam. That's about the dumbest accusation I've heard in a while.

auCL-Ed
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27 June 2019 - 12:51am
#12

Please keep things friendly and respectful.

The tournaments don't have anything to do with the bonus issue this thread is about, so if you want to vent about that please start a new thread.

Edit: Oh you already did. Thanks

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