usJdhenson08
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6 December 2018 - 6:23am

Question regarding wording in T&C in some Rival casinos

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Hello everyone; this is my first post and I'm hoping someone can clarify something for me that has been rattling around in my brain for a while.

First off, I learned the hard way which Rival casinos are legit and which ones are more sketchy. I love Rival games, and finally found a couple of casinos that I will deposit with as well as many I avoid like the plague lol!

One of the first times I won a good amount (2k), I quickly found out that almost all Rival casinos have the max cashout rule, usually 10X your deposit. I was new to online casinos then so it came across as more than a little frustrating.

I now always carefully read the T&C's of any bonus wherever I play. But there is 1 thing I never understood. In the wording of the bonus T&C's of some Rival casinos (and other casinos), it clearly states that the max cashout will be 10X (or 12X, 2X, etc) the "BONUS PLUS DEPOSIT". I understood that to mean they take the amount of your deposit PLUS the amount of the issued bonus and that total times 10 is the the max cash out (for example, a $25 deposit played with a $100 bonus would yield a $1250 max cashout). But it doesn't work that way; it is only the amount of your deposit times 10 (unless you deposit $250). I avoid any promo with a max cashout now, but it still bugs me that they say "BONUS PLUS DEPOSIT"! Can anyone clarify this for me? Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding, but no customer support rep I've spoken with has ever been able to clairify.

Sorry this is a bit lengthy, but maybe it will help someone else who is new and learning to not have to learn the hard way as I did when I was a novice! Smile

2 CL-Ed, vomvom12

auCL-Ed
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6 December 2018 - 7:35am
#1

Great first post.

First up I recommend that you avoid any casino with a 10x max cashout altogether. Don't reward that kind of scam with your money.

You haven't mentioned a casino name but I suspect you're referring to one of many that are part of a large group of Rival casinos run by a company called CyberRock Entertainment N.V. (link to our blacklist entry). They specialise in rules like this which are designed to limit their exposure and prevent anyone cashing out a big win. Here is an example I just copied from the T&Cs at Rockbet Casino:

Quote:

5.1. All Deposits of 249 USD/EURO/GBP/AUS or less have a max withdrawal of 10X the deposit for that specific play session (all other currencies pegged to USD). Once a withdrawal is approved, the casino applies the 10X rule and corrects the withdrawal to accurately reflect the 10X rule. The remaining funds are deemed 'Non-Withdrawable' and are cleared from the player's balance. Deposit bonuses used during a play session that results in a pending withdrawal request, are also 'Non-Withdrawable' and can be deducted from that particular pending withdrawal.

5.2. Customers can submit their withdrawal request at anytime. The approval time may take fifteen - eighteen (15 - 18) working days starting the date authorization process was completed successfully. Pro

Notice that rule 5.1 applies to all deposits less than $250, even if you don't take a bonus. This would cover about 99% of all deposits. And then they quote 15-18 business days (and I bet if you ask they will probably say that means Monday to Thursday only) to process a withdrawal, which is undoubtedly designed to encourage people who can't wait to reverse their withdrawals and lose their money.

Oh and make sure you don't go on holiday or get sick or forget about the money in your account for a while, they make sure they cover their right to rob you too:

Quote:

3.9. Should a player abstain from logging into their Casino account for a period of 90 days or more or the player 90 days without making a single bet or wager, the Casino will be entitled to any balance in that players account and the sum forfeit. Should the player wish to withdraw this amount after this period, we will examine each situation on a case by case basis but reserve the right to invoke the above 3 month rule.

Make no mistake these casinos are a deliberately calculated scam designed to rip people off.

I know for a fact that the same people who operate that company used to run a rogue group of TopGame casinos that were notorious for ripping off players. Members of the family that owns CyberRock have served jail time and have criminal records in their native country.

Your interpretation of the "bonus plus deposit" rule and your example is spot on. If what you say they are doing is right, they should be paying the higher amount. It sounds simply a case of the casino disregarding their own rules in order to not pay out the full amount of a win. But knowing what I do about the crooks in charge of these casinos it doesn't surprise me.

vomvom12

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usJdhenson08
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6 December 2018 - 8:37am
#2

I have a pending withdrawl as we speak at Sahara Sands and I will actually be shocked if I ever get it. I won it off a free chip and that's the only way I'll ever play at any of these anymore. I literally knew nothing about playthrough or max cashout, etc or rouge casinos when I started playing online. Lol its comical to think back on bonuses I played with 100X or even 120X playthrough not having a clue! But I will say that I learned a lot QUICKLY! lol

I know laws and lawmakers are always playing catch-up, especially where online activities are concerned. But I do hope that some kind of reform can take place regarding online gambing in the US. Its foolish to think that people aren't drawn to it when so many other aspects of our lives revolve around the internet now. If our land based casinos (in the US) could offer online gambling, then there would be lawful accountability on their part. As it is, we really have no leg to stand on if any online casino rips us off Sad

2 CL-Ed, coolsongss

devomvom12
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7 December 2018 - 7:06am
#3

hey Jdhenson08
congratulation you have learned the most important thing about
online casinos/gambling: always read the terms & conditions of a new casino from top to bottom.
i recomment to read read both...general terms & conditions and the
bonus terms & conditions.many casinos have both. i also recomment to do a fast google research
about the casino e.g. "name of the casino"+complaints.
i am sorry that you have to learn it the hard way but most of us have
had the same experiences, me to

another thing is that i would try to avoid rival casinos at all, if it is possible.i dont know
how exactly the situation for americans is and at which different casinos they can play
i am from germany and for me it is possible to play at 70-80 % of all casinos so there are a lot of casinos to choose from.

good luck

Jdhenson08

auCL-Ed
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7 December 2018 - 9:26am
#4

Yep - Sahara Sands are one of those ones on our list of CyberRock N.V. casinos. If you can get them to pay you anything you'll be doing well.

And you've hit the nail on the head re the laws - in their efforts to supposedly protect people (if you even believe that) they have instead left them at the mercy of the worst, most crooked operators around.

Jdhenson08

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krcoolsongss
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7 December 2018 - 2:35pm
#5

There are some big and trusted casinos where are Rival games are available with other games.

Probably, not all games are available, though.

But, not sure if Americans are allowed to register in those casinos.

Jdhenson08

usJdhenson08
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7 December 2018 - 5:28pm
#6

I ended up after all I learned playing at Ignition, Cafe Casino, Bovada, and occasionally Superior. I only play slots and the most I've ever one in one day is $1400 which I was very excited about lol!

I don't really like RTG games, but I saw where Extreme allows a $10 Bitcoin deposit so I decided to try my luck. I hit $100 on one .88 on Plentiful Treasures!

coolsongss

usReckless Bets
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7 December 2018 - 11:45pm
#7

Max cashout stipulations on bonus-free deposits is absolutely insane and should be downright illegal. It's amazing these places have any customers to begin with.

2 coolsongss, Jdhenson08

usJdhenson08
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8 December 2018 - 12:09am
#8
Reckless Bets wrote:

Max cashout stipulations on bonus-free deposits is absolutely insane and should be downright illegal. It's amazing these places have any customers to begin with.

When I encountered my first max cashout as a novice, I was floored. I won $2200 and could only cash out $250!! I agree; as much money as these casinos rake in, there should be no such thing as a max cashout!

usReckless Bets
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8 December 2018 - 12:11am
#9

I can see their point on no-deposit bonuses or even bonuses with high matching percentages, but max cashout on a regular deposit with no bonus? I'm stunned a casino would sink so low to enact that, and that any slot developer would license their game to a place.

auCL-Ed
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9 December 2018 - 11:02pm
#10

Yeah it's a complete scam designed to fleece the unwary and unprotected, because there's no way this would be allowed in any legitimately regulated jurisdiction.

vomvom12

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