nlChris78
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17 August 2017 - 11:51pm

How reliable is 7Red casino?

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Hi everyone,

I have been playing slots at 7Red for about 5 years now, but had some issues with the in the last few months. It started earlier this year when it took 3 months before I received a €3.500 withdrawal, but eventually I got payed. They usually pay within a week, so no more complaints about that.

Jackpot... error
Last week I run into this. I was playing the Betsoft game 'Greedy Goblins' and got the spin in the attached screenshot. It gave the jackpot combination, directly followed by the error message.

I've seen this message many times before. But never like this. The message appears when there is no activity for a few minutes. Otherwise, when there is a connection hickup during gameplay, the same message appears and the wheels just keep spinning in the background.

I took a screenshot and sent it to 7Red support. Within a few hours I got a first response. They told me they investigated the issue. There was a connection error, but the costs of the spin were not debited and the case was closed. I think you'll understand I had a slight preference for the €154.660 over the €3 cost for the spin. I didn't give up to easily, but after a day or so they gave me access to some logs, where the relevant spin (of course) was nowhere to be found.

Two questions for you:
1. Did someone over here had similar issues with 7Red or other casinos running Betsoft games?
2. Is it normal that multiple jackpots from Betsoft games at 7Red haven't been won for years? They seem very high to me (at a €3 bet).

screenshot.jpg

CL-Ed

nlChris78
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18 August 2017 - 12:38am
#1

Just a few examples from Betsoft game jackpots at 7Red that haven't been won for years:
Good girl Bad girl: €115.200 & €116.383
A night in Paris: €123.656
Mr Vegas: €263.935
Greedy Goblins: €154.680

2 CL-Ed, sharpe

auCL-Ed
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18 August 2017 - 12:53am
#2

Oh no not another one.

First up: Our 7Red review is here. In short they are an average casino with a good "no wagering" bonuses policy. We didn't have them marked as having Betsoft games so I have updated that in our database.

As for Betsoft, well lets just say that you may well be another victim of theirs.

Quote:

1. Did someone over here had similar issues with 7Red or other casinos running Betsoft games?

Yes. Last year a player was robbed of a progressive jackpot win by Betsoft and the casino saying that it didn't count because it happened during a free spins round. This was not noted anywhere in game or in its help files. They later updated the paytable to specify this exception after the player published screenshots proving they were lying. The casino and Betsoft colluded to pay him off a small amount and forced him to post statements written by them that he was happy with the resolution to the issue.

Quote:

2. Is it normal that multiple jackpots from Betsoft games at 7Red haven't been won for years? They seem very high to me (at a €3 bet).

Again yes. We wrote jackpot tracking software that recorded the values of several Betsoft jackpots at Bovada and Slots.lv over a 9 month period. Our data showed conclusively that some of the jackpots at different coin sizes could not be won, and slo that certain jackpots changed between "winnable" and "non-winnable" states during certain times. We don't know if this is due to Betsoft enabling control over the jackpots or just simply incompetent programming.

There are a litany of other issues with Betsoft in the past, including being caught running a badly programmed, non random keno game, and having their Alderney license terminated. None of their games are tested or validated by anyone, nor are they licensed by any recognised authority (i.e. Curacao is a joke).

Our report detailing all of the above is here:
Warning: avoid all Betsoft slots and casino games

3 hope777, sharpe, bossulo

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auCL-Ed
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18 August 2017 - 1:06am
#3

As for your specific incident, it is hard to say for sure whether you have been ripped off or not.

When you click spin, your machine sends a message to the game server giving it the details of the spin like bet amount, paylines lines selected etc, it starts the reels spinning on your game, and then it waits for a response. The server sends back a response telling your machine whether you won anything and what the reels should show.

So if either of those messages don't get through and your machine doesn't get a response within a certain time period, you would expect the game to show some sort of error message like it did. What the reels should then show is anyone's guess. I have seen games from other providers where the reel spinning animation never stops, and others where they reset to the position they were in before your spin began.

If they were indeed discarding a winning spin deliberately, then the message that came back to your machine would most likely be just a non-winning combination. Telling your machine to show a winning combination and an error message as well would be stupid on their behalf because it gives the game away and could lead to bad publicity just like this. What you saw suggests that either the game sent back a winning combination and an error state as well (which is crazy), or the game just randomly stops the reels wherever it likes after it receives an error message and it happened to show you a winning combination. This second scenario is crazy too because it could result in exactly this situation. So once agin we can see that their programming is incompetent one way or the other.

So I don't know. I'm not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. All I can say for sure is that they have proven time and again to be unprofessional, if not actively malicious, and I reckon they are one of the least trustworthy companies in the online gambling industry. Their game development and testing processes are not up to scratch and they keep making these mistakes over and over again. No-one should ever be playing any of their games.

3 hope777, sharpe, Chris78

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usbarbadosslim93 Recently online: 22 min ago
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18 August 2017 - 1:27pm
#4

Ugh, that's terrible! I mean it very well could be an error, but Betsoft is shady and it wouldn't surprise me if this was a bug that pops up when anyone actually wins their jackpots.

Like Ed said, it just goes to show that no one should be playing their games.

hope777

lvblck
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18 August 2017 - 1:49pm
#5

Unfortunately I have to agree, when it comes to Betsoft, I just simply don't trust them and I don't think they are honest.

bgsharpe
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18 August 2017 - 7:03pm
#6

😲 Wow what a time for a bug really! I refuse to believe it's accidental (what's the chance really??) with their proven bad reputation, like Ed said above it's perhaps hard to tell for sure but it looks very suspicious, not a wonder their Jackpots haven't been hit for years with an error codes like this...isn't there any authorities who can check their games???...it's ridiculous! these companies making millions without any control of their games...ridiculous.

nlChris78
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18 August 2017 - 11:30pm
#7

Thanks for your detailed answer Ed!

What you say about Betsoft is very clear.

I have some more doubts on 7Red however. When I look at their FAQ page I see they are registered in Curacao as well. Under "Where are we licensed" they say all their games are tested by Technical Systems Testting. The link doesn't work (for over 1.5 years when I check at archive.org). This testing company doesn't even seem to exist anymore.

On the same page under "How fair are the games in the Casino?" they say their games are fully certified by TST. Again with another dead link. They try to link to some testing certificate on Betsofts site.

Don't really know what to think about this...

auCL-Ed
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21 August 2017 - 12:35am
#8

TST is a legitimate company that conducts auditing and testing on casino games and the random number generators used by the games. However although they all try to create the impression that they are all testing their games, casinos don't do that at all unless they are creating their own bespoke games. The tests are conducted by the creators and suppliers of the games, not the casinos. As it is a multi-supplier casino, probably not all of the game at 7Red would be tested TST as there are other well known testing companies.

In addition, some suppliers such as Betsoft only have their RNG tested but not the results of games themselves. This is a serious flaw because it means that sure, they may be using a fair and random RNG, but that does not mean that their games are fair or random. For example a game could be coded to just discard a big winning spin that was spat out by the RNG and request another random number from the RNG. Seeing as the time it takes for a server RNG to come back with a number is measured in milliseconds the game could do this as many times as it wants until it gets the result it wants without anyone noticing a delay. That is why we said in our report on Betsoft that their RNG audit is worthless in isolation.

2 sharpe, Chris78

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gbRichJC
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29 September 2017 - 11:56am
#9

Reliable enough, actually. Used to play there.

usReckless Bets
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29 September 2017 - 7:27pm
#10

That jackpot value seems ridiculously high considering it resets at 625.00 (unless that particular one is different from all the others I've played).

usReckless Bets
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30 September 2017 - 5:52am
#11

Oops, on a .02 denom it should reset at 1250. That's still absurdly high jackpot for that win (51,554 multiplier).

auCL-Ed
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30 September 2017 - 7:27am
#12

Yeah I would be shocked if this casino alone has had enough play on those games to build the jackpots that high. They could have seeded them with their own money, or they could be pooled with a few other casinos. But still, the lesson we learned is that Betsoft jackpots can be phantom numbers that are meaningless because they can't be won.

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