hr5Scatters
FreerollerFreeroller
5Scatters's picture
Location: Southern Europe
Joined: 2 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Thanks given: 15
Thanks received: 20
2 January 2017 - 12:44pm

How do odds of entering a progressive jackpot scale with bet size?

32 replies • Last post

Hi guys, relatively new slot player here. I've been at this for a few months now, experiencing some wild swings in both directions so far. Lately I've been playing mostly the following games with progressive jackpots:

- Marvel Jackpot: mainly Avengers, some Fantastic Four, Thor, Hulk and Age of the Gods games. Made roughly 30 000 spins, mostly at the minimum €0.20-5 bet but also at least several hundred spins at higher bets like €2-5.
- DC Jackpot: Made about 1000 minimum €0.30 spins on a mixture of Batman games
- Dragon Jackpot: Made about 2000 spins, mostly at the minimum €0.15 but also at least a hundred at €1-2
- Mega Moolah: made about 1000 minimum €0.25 spins

Yet despite such a tremendous number of spins, I haven't seen a jackpot game even once. Not a single time! I've seen extremely rare events like 5 wilds or 10 rounds of free games in a row, but I have yet to encounter the chance at any jackpot.

Of course I don't expect to win a major jackpot, as the odds of that are simply ludicrous, but not even a single Mini (Power) jackpot for as little as €10? Am I the most unlucky person in the world or are these games rigged, or maybe the paytable is lying and spins are not even counted unless they're made for big baller amounts of dozens of euros per spin?

I play mainly at William Hill and Bet365 so far. Both of them have provided great support and nice bonuses, as well as fair payouts, but not even a trace of the jackpot game.

Did you guys ever get into any of these jackpot games? What is your experience with bet sizes significantly increasing or decreasing the odds?

lpangborn76

usMistee234
GamblerGambler
Location: Texas
Joined: 26 Aug 2016
Posts: 91
Thanks given: 49
Thanks received: 57
2 January 2017 - 10:20pm
#1

I asked almost this same question here before. I have now been playing at online casinos for a few months and havent hit a minor or a major either. Last year I hit about 60k total in land casino jackpots The year before I hit about 30k in jackpots. I always have won something at the casino.. I usually am not smart and spend it back but for the most part I hit a jackpot so I just find it unbelievable that I havent hit anything online. I am convinced they are rigged but supposedly they arent.

I have also tried to change my bets anywhere from .25 to 12 a spin so I dont think bet sizes have anything to do with the odds. Right now I am very negative w/ the whole online gambling since I havent had a substantial win but maybe someone with better luck will provide some better feedback.

lpangborn76

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 10412
Thanks given: 6293
Thanks received: 5353
4 January 2017 - 2:54am
#2

This depends on the game and jackpot. Not all games with progressive jackpots have chances to win that scale with bet size. Some require you to bet the maximum amount to qualify for the jackpot (which is beyond most people's budget), or others will instead scale the jackpot amount so that the chance of winning stays the same but the jackpot amount reduces with your bet size if you aren't betting the maximum.

In games with a jackpot that do increase the chance of triggering the jackpot with your bet size, they should be scaling things linearly to be fair. However this is not information that any of the game developers usually reveal. For example at the minimum bet size of say 1c, the chance might be 1 in 100,000,000. If you increase your bet size to 20c it should be 20 in 100,000,000 (or 1 in 5,000,000). The obvious point is that it is still going to be a very rare event. This sort of scaling the chances usually only happens when the jackpot is won during a separate bonus round, because if it is won by 5 symbols on a spin then the game would have to alter the reel strips as you changed your bet size to compensate for the changes in chances.

For games with a jackpot that can only be won inside a bonus round, there is the distinction between triggering the bonus round itself and then winning the jackpot during the bonus round. Two games that immediately come to mind are Microgaming's Mega Moolah and Net Ent's Mega Fortune. Both of these have a wheel of fortune style bonus round that determines if you win the jackpot and multiple jackpot levels. Your bet size affects your chance of winning the jackpot after you're in the bonus round, but not your chances of triggering the bonus round in the first place (for the reel strips reason mentioned above). So betting more does not mean you will get more shots at the jackpot, it means that you have a higher chance of winning it when you do get a chance.

I'm surprised that you haven't seen the Mage Moolah wheel after 1000 spins as I have found that game is quite boring with the wheel round coming up frequently but it is rare to win anything good on it. Same with Mega Fortune. I'm guessing you just had a barren bunch of spins which can happen with any game.

I'm not a fan of Playtech games and especially not the Marvel games as the payout rates are terrible. But 30,000 spins sounds to me like far too many without even having a shot at the jackpot bonus round. Is that what you mean?

3 sharpe, lpangborn76, 5Scatters

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing at a new casino.
Post in our forums to earn CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop.

bgsharpe
Forum AngelForum Angel
sharpe's picture
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined: 4 Nov 2014
Posts: 7654
Thanks given: 4239
Thanks received: 1165
4 January 2017 - 12:30pm
#3

You've been very comprehensive there Ed (and some good mat too 😉 ) very useful reading of how the Jackpots works but I'm now even more negative about chasing them than I was before, just it looks to me it's very unrealistic chance unless you have really big stack and a ton of patience ( I certainly don't have both these) for just a chance of winning something.
Seems to me those Jackpots which don't require certain bet size are better for the average punter, and if I'm getting you right the number of spins in Mega Moolag and Mega Fortune Jackpots gives you a better chance and only after bonus round been triggered the bet size matters, right?

hr5Scatters
FreerollerFreeroller
5Scatters's picture
Location: Southern Europe
Joined: 2 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Thanks given: 15
Thanks received: 20
4 January 2017 - 1:00pm
#4

Thanks for your report CL-Ed. I am referring primarily to the jackpots where the following statement is listed in the paytable:

"Any spin of any value can begin the jackpot game. However, the higher the bet the higher the chance of entering the jackpot game"
(i.e. the odds of starting the bonus round are (supposedly) different for different bet sizes, but once the bonus round has been triggered, it provides a fixed chance for everyone)

The games where the opposite is true (i.e. where everyone has the same fixed chance per spin of entering the bonus round, but once inside the chance of winning the large jackpots is different and is increased by bet size) are found mainly in land casinos in my experience - in jackpot systems like Egypt Quest, Cash Fever and Doggie Cash.

What I'm curious about is if Marvel/DC/Dragon's statement about bet sizes increasing the chance of triggering the bonus round is actually true or they're just trolling to incite players to spend more money.

lpangborn76

bgsharpe
Forum AngelForum Angel
sharpe's picture
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined: 4 Nov 2014
Posts: 7654
Thanks given: 4239
Thanks received: 1165
5 January 2017 - 12:15am
#5

Don't want to stand on the way on this conversation but..Hey Ed did you notice how most of the new guys here (my self either before) call you CL-Ed at first and then when they use to know you better it tuns to just...Ed 😀 sorry for that I have to say it 😀

3 CL-Ed, lpangborn76, 5Scatters

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 10412
Thanks given: 6293
Thanks received: 5353
5 January 2017 - 1:14am
#6
5Scatters wrote:

"Any spin of any value can begin the jackpot game. However, the higher the bet the higher the chance of entering the jackpot game"
(i.e. the odds of starting the bonus round are (supposedly) different for different bet sizes, but once the bonus round has been triggered, it provides a fixed chance for everyone)

Yes, I agree with your assumption that if the game alters the chance of triggering the bonus game then the chance of hitting the jackpot once you're in it is likely to be the same, no matter what you bet. And yes, this only really works that way for games where the jackpot trigger is totally random, as opposed to the ones I described above which rely on reel combinations to trigger the bonus round.

5Scatters wrote:

What I'm curious about is if Marvel/DC/Dragon's statement about bet sizes increasing the chance of triggering the bonus round is actually true or they're just trolling to incite players to spend more money.

That is the million dollar question. With an absence of independent end-to-end auditing of game code, and I'm not just talking about the RNG-only audits that many software providers use to claim that their games are fair (ala Betsoft), there isn't any way to tell aside from playing the game millions of times at different bet sizes and keeping track of everything. Of course that is not realistic so you have to decide whether to trust the companies making the games.

There are ones that I trust (eg Microgaming, Net Ent, IGT) and others that I don't. Some game providers with questionable histories like Betsoft (we have proven their progressive games may be rigged and unwinnable) and Playtech prove that anything is possible. In fact for some, playing the game may be fair but getting paid after you win is the real issue. For example there was the Playtech Beach Life jackpot rip-off at Joyland Casino, which was indirectly owned by Playtech at the time (back in 2009 I think). A woman won at the casino who then told her they would only pay $9000 per month for the next few decades unless she accepted a settlement offer of around half of what she won. The casino pocketed the rest. Most Playtech casinos still have that rule in their T&Cs which says a lot about the ethics of that company.

The bottom line is that if you want iron clad proof that those statements are true, I don't think that you will find it. People win these jackpots all the time with various sized bets which proves that they are winnable at any wager. But the chance of winning is minuscule no matter what you wager. My advice would be simply to play at the level that you are comfortable and ignore the urge to bet more than you can afford as it won't significantly improve your odds of winning the biggest jackpots anyway.

3 sharpe, lpangborn76, 5Scatters

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing at a new casino.
Post in our forums to earn CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop.

krcoolsongss
High RollerHigh Roller
coolsongss's picture
Joined: 2 Dec 2014
Posts: 2832
Thanks given: 2119
Thanks received: 1417
6 January 2017 - 11:26am
#7

Recently I saw a news that a lucky player won a huge Jackpot at a 2.5 Euro bet.
I copied it here.

Good Luck 🙂

The Christmas spirit was alive in the home of a Sunnyplayer Casino member on December 22nd as he received the ultimate holiday surprise. Yggdrasil Gaming’s Joker Millions paved the way for a prosperous New Year with a €3.3 million progressive jackpot win!

The identity of the new millionaire was not released but we do know that he was spinning at €2.50 on Thursday morning and blew the lid off of a bubbling €3,291,513 progressive.

2 CL-Ed, lpangborn76

krcoolsongss
High RollerHigh Roller
coolsongss's picture
Joined: 2 Dec 2014
Posts: 2832
Thanks given: 2119
Thanks received: 1417
6 January 2017 - 11:29am
#8

Hahaha, I just found another more surprising new regarding the bet size.
This is really unbelievable, man 🙂

Here's the news.

The famous Mega Fortune jackpot paid out again and boy was it a whopper. This time, the instant millionaire, correction, multimillionaire, conquered the NetEnt progressive game to add £6,235,372.42 to his bgo balance.

The player, Wellzyc, was spinning at just £1.25 to set the record for the largest jackpot ever won at the casino.

CL-Ed

hr5Scatters
FreerollerFreeroller
5Scatters's picture
Location: Southern Europe
Joined: 2 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Thanks given: 15
Thanks received: 20
6 January 2017 - 3:28pm
#9

I'm a bit confused here - is €2.50 per spin really considered small? Who can afford to be playing at those stakes all the time?

bgsharpe
Forum AngelForum Angel
sharpe's picture
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined: 4 Nov 2014
Posts: 7654
Thanks given: 4239
Thanks received: 1165
7 January 2017 - 12:01am
#10
5Scatters wrote:

I'm a bit confused here - is €2.50 per spin really considered small? Who can afford to be playing at those stakes all the time?

Yeah, I could hardly afford more than four spins at that rate 😉

krcoolsongss
High RollerHigh Roller
coolsongss's picture
Joined: 2 Dec 2014
Posts: 2832
Thanks given: 2119
Thanks received: 1417
7 January 2017 - 8:59am
#11
5Scatters wrote:

I'm a bit confused here - is €2.50 per spin really considered small? Who can afford to be playing at those stakes all the time?

Yeah, it is a big bet for me too.
But, before this news, the smallest bet for huge progressives was like $5 and the rest of them were like $20, $25.

So, I just thought that 2.5 Euro and 1.25 GBP was surprising 🙂

krcoolsongss
High RollerHigh Roller
coolsongss's picture
Joined: 2 Dec 2014
Posts: 2832
Thanks given: 2119
Thanks received: 1417
7 January 2017 - 9:02am
#12
sharpe wrote:

Yeah, I could hardly afford more than four spins at that rate 😉

Yeah, me too. I used to spin under $1 mostly.
But, I spinned at $5 or $6.25 a few times, which was a thrill 🙂

sharpe

hr5Scatters
FreerollerFreeroller
5Scatters's picture
Location: Southern Europe
Joined: 2 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Thanks given: 15
Thanks received: 20
7 January 2017 - 12:46pm
#13

Heh, I've just recently deposited €10 at one of the 500% welcome bonus casinos and started spinning Thor at the maximum allowed by terms & conditions (€6 per spin). Good luck kept me in a very stable loop around my initial amount, so I actually made more than 200 such spins (stumbling upon some 5-of-a-kind sizable wins and mediocre free games in the process), but still no jackpot round appeared. Sad!

sharpe

bgsharpe
Forum AngelForum Angel
sharpe's picture
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined: 4 Nov 2014
Posts: 7654
Thanks given: 4239
Thanks received: 1165
8 January 2017 - 8:38pm
#14

What's the wagering requirements anyway? And which casino in fact?

hr5Scatters
FreerollerFreeroller
5Scatters's picture
Location: Southern Europe
Joined: 2 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Thanks given: 15
Thanks received: 20
8 January 2017 - 10:11pm
#15

It's Coral Casino with a 500% bonus (up to € 50) and very reasonable wagering requirement of x25. I didn't care about the requirement as I was chasing the jackpot round, but with more conservative betting like €0.5 per spin that shouldn't be hard to meet.

sharpe

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 10412
Thanks given: 6293
Thanks received: 5353
9 January 2017 - 5:41am
#16

You know what I have noticed... there are three certainties in life: death, taxes, and casinos will always use the words "only" or "just", and "single spin", when describing the story of whoever won their most recent big jackpot, no matter what the bet size was.

Oh and they never ever mention how much the player wagered before they won the big one. Its as if everyone who wins just sits down, only bets £25 on a single spin, and wins on their first spin.

4 sharpe, coolsongss, Mistee234, 5Scatters

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing at a new casino.
Post in our forums to earn CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop.

hr5Scatters
FreerollerFreeroller
5Scatters's picture
Location: Southern Europe
Joined: 2 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Thanks given: 15
Thanks received: 20
9 January 2017 - 3:14pm
#17

So I just put €40 at 32Red casino (making use of their 160% bonus for a total of €104) and played it through Mega Moolah Safari:
Bet size: from €1 to €6.25, mostly €1.5 - €2.
Jackpots: saw the wheel 2 times close to the beginning - once at €5 and once at €1.5. Won only the €8 mini both times. Then didn't see it for hundreds of spins despite keeping the bets between €1.5 and €2.5.
Free games: triggered 2 times with weak to moderate effects.
Biggest single win: around €52 from free spins triggered at €2 per spin.
Total spins made: cca 300

Conclusion: like Ed said - pretty boring, plus it's lame that even at such high bets you're still going hundreds of spins without even seeing the Wheel once, let alone winning anything significant on it.

bgsharpe
Forum AngelForum Angel
sharpe's picture
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined: 4 Nov 2014
Posts: 7654
Thanks given: 4239
Thanks received: 1165
9 January 2017 - 9:49pm
#18
CL-Ed wrote:

You know what I have noticed... there are three certainties in life: death, taxes, and casinos will always use the words "only" or "just", and "single spin", when describing the story of whoever won their most recent big jackpot, no matter what the bet size was.

Oh and they never ever mention how much the player wagered before they won the big one. Its as if everyone who wins just sits down, only bets £25 on a single spin, and wins on their first spin.

You dead right about those certain things in live Ed, and yes when I'm reading the news about Jackpot wins it always sounds like they won on the first spin they've ever made but I don't think that it ever happens that way, there's one more certain thing too, after every Jackpot winner there's thousands of players who've lost.

usMistee234
GamblerGambler
Location: Texas
Joined: 26 Aug 2016
Posts: 91
Thanks given: 49
Thanks received: 57
10 January 2017 - 2:29am
#19

I have never hit a jackpot online but i have hit 2 20k plus jackpots at a land casino and the 1st one I sat down and bet max $4 a spin and hit it on the 1st spin. The 2nd I hit in my first $20 betting $5 so I do think the big jackpots hit right away if they are going to hit. I wonder if they are just set to hit at a certain time and will hit no matter the bet amount.

usMistee234
GamblerGambler
Location: Texas
Joined: 26 Aug 2016
Posts: 91
Thanks given: 49
Thanks received: 57
10 January 2017 - 2:33am
#20

Another thing I just thought of.. when free spins are part of the bonus offer are the winnings from the free spins part of the playthru requirements and is it 25x the wins? If thats the case and you hit a jackpot on free spins it would be impossible to make the playthru right?

krcoolsongss
High RollerHigh Roller
coolsongss's picture
Joined: 2 Dec 2014
Posts: 2832
Thanks given: 2119
Thanks received: 1417
10 January 2017 - 2:09pm
#21
Mistee234 wrote:

I have never hit a jackpot online but i have hit 2 20k plus jackpots at a land casino and the 1st one I sat down and bet max $4 a spin and hit it on the 1st spin. The 2nd I hit in my first $20 betting $5 so I do think the big jackpots hit right away if they are going to hit. I wonder if they are just set to hit at a certain time and will hit no matter the bet amount.

Wow, 20k plus jackpots are very nice to hear. I have not had it so far 🙂
And I think that the Jackpots must be absolutely random...

krcoolsongss
High RollerHigh Roller
coolsongss's picture
Joined: 2 Dec 2014
Posts: 2832
Thanks given: 2119
Thanks received: 1417
10 January 2017 - 2:47pm
#22
Mistee234 wrote:

Another thing I just thought of.. when free spins are part of the bonus offer are the winnings from the free spins part of the playthru requirements and is it 25x the wins? If thats the case and you hit a jackpot on free spins it would be impossible to make the playthru right?

Hey, I hope that I understand what you thought of.

I think that I checked about the free spins win and playthrough and Jackpots in RTG casinos, and some other casinos. They were pretty clear as I remember.

The wins from free spin offer are tied to the various playthrough requirement from no wagering requirement to 10x, 25x, 30x, 60x etc.

If the bonus offer is combined with Match Bonus + Free Spins, the required playthrough amount on Match bonus is just instantly set upon the deposit and the one on free spins win is to be added.
The total amount is to held in the bonus balance (not withdrawable), until the playthrough is done.

And, Jackpot win, whether it is local or progressive, goes into the cash balance which is allowed to be withdrawn, even when the bonus is still active. Or, the Jackpot win is not to be tied to any requirement and just can be withdrawn after the original bonus requirement is finished.

hr5Scatters
FreerollerFreeroller
5Scatters's picture
Location: Southern Europe
Joined: 2 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Thanks given: 15
Thanks received: 20
11 January 2017 - 12:53pm
#23

Another 5 000 Marvel spins and 5 000 Mega Moolah spins for a grand total of 0 jackpot rounds. These jackpot games are simply not worth it.

krcoolsongss
High RollerHigh Roller
coolsongss's picture
Joined: 2 Dec 2014
Posts: 2832
Thanks given: 2119
Thanks received: 1417
11 January 2017 - 3:23pm
#24
5Scatters wrote:

Another 5 000 Marvel spins and 5 000 Mega Moolah spins for a grand total of 0 jackpot rounds. These jackpot games are simply not worth it.

Hey, you spinned a lot. I hope that you will hit the luck someday 🙂

lvblck
Forum AngelForum Angel
Location: The North
Joined: 6 Apr 2016
Posts: 3897
Thanks given: 344
Thanks received: 1140
11 January 2017 - 9:11pm
#25
CL-Ed wrote:

You know what I have noticed... there are three certainties in life: death, taxes, and casinos will always use the words "only" or "just", and "single spin", when describing the story of whoever won their most recent big jackpot, no matter what the bet size was.

Oh and they never ever mention how much the player wagered before they won the big one. Its as if everyone who wins just sits down, only bets £25 on a single spin, and wins on their first spin.

This is so point on! I love how it's always "just with a 1.25€ bet". We don't know, maybe the player made thousands of spins.

auCL-Ed
StaffStaff
CL-Ed's picture
Location: Sydney
Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Posts: 10412
Thanks given: 6293
Thanks received: 5353
12 January 2017 - 12:45am
#26
Mistee234 wrote:

I have never hit a jackpot online but i have hit 2 20k plus jackpots at a land casino and the 1st one I sat down and bet max $4 a spin and hit it on the 1st spin. The 2nd I hit in my first $20 betting $5 so I do think the big jackpots hit right away if they are going to hit. I wonder if they are just set to hit at a certain time and will hit no matter the bet amount.

Somewhere in a casino marketing department office:

Golden Showers Casino is proud to announce our latest jackpot winner. Mistee234 from Springfield hit an incredible $20,000 win on their first spin while betting just $4! So come on down and you could be the next to feel the Golden Showers!

Mistee234 wrote:

Another thing I just thought of.. when free spins are part of the bonus offer are the winnings from the free spins part of the playthru requirements and is it 25x the wins? If thats the case and you hit a jackpot on free spins it would be impossible to make the playthru right?

This depends on the terms of the free spins offer. Sometimes the winnings are subject to playthrough, sometimes they aren't. Also some game developers block you from winning the progressive jackpot while on a free spins bonus for this reason (I know Net Entertainment do).

3 coolsongss, Mistee234, 5Scatters

Always play it safe! Consult our list of rogue casinos and warnings before depositing at a new casino.
Post in our forums to earn CLchips which can be used to buy real prizes in our CLchips shop.

zaLambino
True PlayerTrue Player
Lambino's picture
Location: SA
Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 784
Thanks given: 382
Thanks received: 718
14 January 2017 - 9:46pm
#27

Very interesting article , I was playing mega fortune at Videoslots the other day and activated the progressive round , I was betting minimum which is 0.25c but I did get the bonus symbols on every reel and what I did notice was that it was easier to progress to to the main jackpot , I made it to the iner circle of the wheel one out from the jackpot 🤑
Now had my stake been say 0.50c or 1.25€
Would it have had a more likely chance of landing on the jackpot or did the bonus symbols on each reel equal that of having bet at a higher stake?

coolsongss

usMistee234
GamblerGambler
Location: Texas
Joined: 26 Aug 2016
Posts: 91
Thanks given: 49
Thanks received: 57
14 January 2017 - 10:37pm
#28

Definitely wont be playing at golden showers 🙂

krcoolsongss
High RollerHigh Roller
coolsongss's picture
Joined: 2 Dec 2014
Posts: 2832
Thanks given: 2119
Thanks received: 1417
26 January 2017 - 10:46am
#29

I found this news, and this is the lowest one so far I guess.
Good Luck guys 🙂

January seems to be a hot month for progressive jackpot wins. First it was Microgaming’s Mega Moolah now it’s NetEnt’s Mega Fortune Dreams. The win goes to a 62-year-old Paf Casino player from Finland, who spun a €1 bet into €3.5 million.

hr5Scatters
FreerollerFreeroller
5Scatters's picture
Location: Southern Europe
Joined: 2 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Thanks given: 15
Thanks received: 20
26 January 2017 - 3:21pm
#30

I just discovered the super-fun and quite fair game "Divine Fortune" at Betsson. I played at the minimum €0.20 stake with a €10 deposit, cashing out €50 before running into a long cold streak that ended my play.

During my session I got into several jackpot games and even amassed 14 out of 15 coins needed for winning the Mega Jackpot during one of them! Absolutely incredible. I'll make sure to play there again, the game is very enjoyable and has very original features that make you happy even when you don't win big.

2 sharpe, coolsongss