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uspdiddy
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20 September 2016 - 4:51am

Betsoft software: my personal experience from 2 years of every day play

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This post is in regards to a software provider and not a individual online casino, and is directed towards anyone who has played betsoft games.

I have been playing online for over 12 years now. I have been a member at numerous online casinos, some of which were questionable on all levels, and some of which that had spectacular payout speed/payouts/customer service/livechat. For the last 2 years I have played betsof slots on Bovada casino and Bitstarz.

Many people complain about questionable losses often because they are simply mad they lost, while a few others complain about continual losses and unwinnable jackpots. Prior to playing betsoft I was a member at buzzluck casino, luckyred casino, clubworld casino, Manhattan slots casino, high noon casino, all star slots casino, and aladdins gold casino. In all honesty the slots on those casinos would 100 percent of the time give you back a large portion of your losses if you were to continue to hammer away at the same game on the same betting. Whether it takes days or weeks, you would win. Period. Now, in regards to betsoft, for the last 2 years I have played literally every single day, with the exception of missing maybe a day or two some weeks. I would play the same games repeatedly. Your guess is as good as mine how many spins that would amount to if you play for many hours every single day for 2 years on a game. We are talking around a million spins, on at the least one game. The first thing which I can testify too, is patterns. There should be no patterns in a truly random game. If you bet max regardless of a certain coin you are on, immediately following a decent win , 9 out of 10 times you will go straight down for the following 50 spins or so, then get a nice win that puts you back up, then you will get many small wins around your bet size, and then many spins that pay less than your bet with 4 to 5 spins not hitting anything in between the spins paying less than your bet. So, the player is left with the feeling of chance and winning, while not winning. This may sound rediculious, but I assure you that with well over 3400 deposits, I can testify to what betsoft games entail. In addition to myself never ever winning a jackpot of any kind, I had never won over what I deposited for just simply a week. Ever. Not once. I played every single betsoft game, including their new games, such as birds. In particular I played greedy goblins, rooks revenge, at the copa, and boomanji, fruit zen among others.

As online players , we are familiar with slots in general. What a full screen of wilds looks like, or the best paying symbol of a particular game. Having that been said, out of all the daily play I have done, i have never seen any betsoft game come close to 5 of the best symbols, or filling even a 3rd of a screen with wilds or anything close to the maximum pay. Many of betsofts games advertise that you may win up to ,"2 million credits". The highest amount I could ever win was 20,000 credits, and playing with bit coin, that is not very much on the .01 .02 .05 coin. Around 200 micro bit coin. or a little over a 120 dollars. OUT OF 2 YEARS OF DAILY PLAY, FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, THE AVERAGE PAY OF A BONUS ON THE .01 .02 COIN WAS AROUND 1200 TO 10,000 CREDITS(10-70 DOLLARS) AS FOR THE .05 AND.1 COIN YOU CAN DO THE MATH FOR THAT, AND IT IS STILL NOT SUBSTANTIAL AT ALL. The fact that the average wins were so consistent is questionable on its own.

NOW, CONSIDER WHAT WE ARE READING ABOUT JACKPOTS BEING UNWINNABLE, OR IN SOME CASES, DENIED. AS WELL, BOVADA CASINO APPARENTLY DROPPING BETSOFT GAMES. FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE , I MUST SAY, THEIR GAMES CLEARLY HAVE PARAMETERS AND CONTROL MECHANISMS IN PLACE INVOLVING THEIR RNG AND OBVIOUS REJECTION OF RANDOM GENERATED NUMBERS WHICH RESULT IN SUBSTANTIAL PAYS. Their games are indeed fun, but for any of you whom have played significant amounts of times on betsoft games, knows what I am talking about. Where they do pay , but there is always a control in place, and you will very very rarely ever win and then win. And when that does happen, it will not be thousands, and certainly not 20 or 100 thousand dollars. As we can see , betsoft jackpots are highly questionable as the only jackpots that have been recorded to hit have gone off literally literally at the same time period for their games. I know this post is a drop in the bucket, but with enough players coming forward, hopefully betsoft can be held accountable. More so, AS ONLINE PLAYERS WE SHOULD PUSH FOR REGULATIONS TO CHANGE AND ADOPT POLICIES INVOLVING THE TESTING OF RNG'S WHILE HOOKED UP TO GAMES, RATHER THAN RNG'S BY THEMSELVES. And one last thing, the casinos I mentioned above which I had a good experience at, I have won 15 thousand, 4 thousand, and 1200 many times over only betting $2.50 to $5.00 a spin with only 50 dollar deposits. The highest amount I have got up to on betsoft was 3 bitcoin(around 1500), and that was once out of around 700 days of play. And I should also say, that even though people may claim to have won on betsoft, I assure you they are the 1 in a million players that are winning substantial amounts on betsoft. If the sofware is indeed intentionally rigged, I am more than sure the software engineers hired are not idiots and controlled wins occur to remain a legitimate software provider. If you made it this far in the post, I hope this was informative. Specially if you are like me and gave betsoft a sincere chance and are left questioning their legitimacy.

2 members gave thanks for this useful post: CL-Ed, lpangborn76

auCL-Ed
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20 September 2016 - 8:22am
#1

Thanks for taking the time to write about your experience in such detail pdiddy.

Normally when the old "game is rigged" claim comes up I'm skeptical as most of the time it comes from someone who is upset that they lost. But after what I have found out and seen of Betsoft, I don't rule anything out. It sounds like you have already read our findings regarding Betsoft and their unwinnable jackpots and worthless RNG audit, but if not it is right this way.

I think its fair to summarise like this:
- The jackpot games do not pay out fairly or consistently across coin sizes at the same casino and the same games at different casinos. Whether it is caused by negligence or malice, this is indisputable.
- The RNG audit tells us nothing about the fairness of all their games as is is tested in isolation, not via end-to-end use in a game.
- They refused to pay someone who should have won a jackpot according to the rules of their game, and later changed the rules.
- Betsoft had their Alderney license terminated.
- They have been found to have run a non-random keno game in the past.
- They are not licensed or regulated by any jurisdiction that holds them accountable for any of this stuff. They do have a Curacao license, which is basically a joke that allows them to do anything while claiming to be "licensed".

I don't really need to go on. If anyone can get past those things and still choose to play their games, then I question their critical thinking abilities. Their development and testing processes are either unprofessional or downright crooked. After all I have seen lets just say that I find it hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I know this next bit is circumstantial, but it jives with what you're saying about never having a big win with them. Have a look through our winner screenshots thread (or indeed similar threads at other sites) and see how many Betsoft wins you find in there. If it is more than can be counted on one hand I'll be shocked.

On the other hand multiple independent casino operators have told me, after being contacted and asking why they were still offering Betsoft's games, that the non-jackpot games are all paying back according to the stated theoretical RTP figures. Of course this does not tell us how many players are winners, just the total take on the games. So it is plausible that the games are designed to be money suckers that pay back at the specified rate, but don't give you much of a chance to get ahead.

You make some good points about regulation and demanding better testing of games that isn't just limited to the random number generator in isolation. The problem is though, Betsoft aren't going to do this and no-one can compel them apart from their regulator. Seeing as that is Curacao there is more chance of it raining gold nuggets out of the sky than that happening.

As players all we can do is vote with our wallets. Stop playing Betsoft games and stop playing at casinos that offer them. And better yet, contact your casino and tell them exactly why you aren't playing there any more. Because goodness knows we have tried our best to spread this information but the number of casinos I have spoken to that seem to simply not care at all about this at all apart from what it means to their own bottom line is really depressing.

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usallinpats
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20 September 2016 - 2:55pm
#2

Pdiddy,,,,you are exactly correct. Betsoft games are not random. I'n my real life I deal with statistical analyses and have determined that what you are saying is correct. The patterns are quite evident. I have stopped playing them for money even though I find them entertaining. Basically , they are set to make sure that the player cant win any substantial amount ( certainly not equaling your deposits over time).

uspdiddy
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20 September 2016 - 4:18pm
#3

Thank you for your replies. I appreciate it. And, that was funny; "more chance of it raining gold nuggets"; I enjoyed reading that.

usbarbadosslim93
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21 September 2016 - 4:31pm
#4

I absolutely loved the presentation of BetSoft's games, but find it abhorrent that their progressive games are virtually unwinnable. It's unfortunate that there aren't many reliable regulated slot developers that put out high-quality games to Americans, as we could certainly use it.

lvblck
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22 September 2016 - 10:11am
#5

I agree with all of the comments above.. I just don't trust Betsoft and more and more scandals are around them and their payouts. Sad.

caactmyname
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22 September 2016 - 8:41pm
#6
barbadosslim93 wrote:

I absolutely loved the presentation of BetSoft's games, but find it abhorrent that their progressive games are virtually unwinnable. It's unfortunate that there aren't many reliable regulated slot developers that put out high-quality games to Americans, as we could certainly use it.

That's the problem. There's the entertainment of Betsoft games - they're masters at making the games fun. But just the scumminess of them makes me turn away from all of their games, no matter how exciting they may seem

Perhaps that's why they're able to invest so much into the presentation of it?

bgsharpe
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23 September 2016 - 9:02pm
#7

I would prefer not so great presentation Wink.. but a honest paying games , after all we all spinning with the hope of winning (and we pay for that) so the winnings should be a N1 priority I think.

lvblck
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25 September 2016 - 6:29pm
#8

I agree with you sharpe. Entertainment is a great thing but payouts and honesty are much more important.

usnewflorida
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26 September 2016 - 10:46am
#9

The betsoft casinos that serve American players don't have good reputation at paying wining players either.

lvblck
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26 September 2016 - 5:58pm
#10

I think that at the moment none of Betsoft casinos have good reputation. I don't mean casinos that offr their games amongst other softwares, but the ones that only have Betsoft. There always seem to be something sketchy about them.

1 member gave thanks for this useful post: newflorida

phCasinodepositors
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1 October 2016 - 4:03am
#11

Betsoft makes good design of their game. It is an eye catcher and looks fun to play but when you started playing it you wont notice at the start that your loosing a lot than winning. After a couple of months playing the same game by betsoft you would start thinking how their games sucking your money more than winning.

auIndependentGambler
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19 October 2016 - 4:37am
#12

I played a betsoft stud poker game recently for a few thousand hands, I lost within 1SD.
I did only get a full house once and nothing better. But still not near enough evidence.

ustwitchyseal
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19 October 2016 - 7:29am
#13

Even if your sample size were relevant, I don't think the Variance cause any red flags. They know better than to kill their players with horrendous payouts.

Take the absolute poker Keno issue:

NoahSD wrote:

it appears that AP's Keno "R"NG actually leads to better results for the customer. The customer still loses, and because it's not random, the customer has a much much lower chance of profiting, but it does appear that the customer actually loses less than he would to a fair Keno game.

Absolute Poker wrote:

Our early analysis of this claim stated that there was a flaw specific to the game logic in ‘ten play’ only on Traditional Keno and no confirmed issue with the Random Number Generator (RNG). Upon notice of the flaw, we contacted our third party software provider of Keno, Betsoft Gaming (BSG) for a more comprehensive investigation and subsequently removed all Keno games from our site until the investigation was complete and all corrective actions taken.

Our joint investigations with BSG confirmed that while the RNG for Keno was functioning properly, it was selecting from a pre-existing data set that was not as extensive as it should have been. The results were in turn random, but from a limited data set rather than from the full data set from which RNG is expected to choose.

Source: Twoplustwo Forums

I that means players would experience less variance than a fair game of Keno.

I think it's possible they just didn't want to have to worry about paying out a 200,000x winner every 10 million rounds.

Kind of like their progressive Jackpots.

Videopoker Royals are a lot more frequent with much lower payouts, so I doubt they would risk eliminating them from play all together.

auIndependentGambler
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19 October 2016 - 7:42am
#14

I meant to say as evidence the game is legit.
I would play their table games for a low bet until I get a better sample size on wagering with them, Not going to write them off just yet.

deSimon_whistler
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19 October 2016 - 6:11pm
#15

I used to have some luck in Betsoft slots and don't care of jackpots, which in my opinion do not even exist. These games are good to have some fun,yes. But due to all these complicated graphics the most of the slots are too slow. I tried two different casinos. You may say that the problem is in my Internet connection but the slots of other providers worked perfectly. Anyway, I would rather say "no" to Betsoft games.

ustwitchyseal
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20 October 2016 - 1:57am
#16
IndependentGambler wrote:

I meant to say as evidence the game is legit.
I would play their table games for a low bet until I get a better sample size on wagering with them, Not going to write them off just yet.

My point was that I don't think variance over any sample size will be an indicator of fairness considering Betsofts history with Keno and Huge Progressive Jackpots.

An unfair game doesn't necessarily mean the house edge is increased. They could actually be decreasing the house edge and at the same time make it less likely for you to profit by decreasing the variance. (by taking out all the big win possibilities)

usReckless Bets
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26 October 2016 - 11:10pm
#17

Not to defend Betsoft but I disagree that random data will never contain patterns. Random data can certainly contain "patterns" and it's inevitable to happen. These are the same fallacies that brick-and-mortar casino patrons seem to have (despite those slots being much more regulated and "sound" than online slots).

Humans perceive (often in a biased way that confirms their original theory) patterns when there may not be one. Relying on a (admittely very extensive) anecdote instead of hard, statistical data is hard to do.

I've had really good days on Betsoft games. I've also had really bad days. Just like at real casinos, luck is rare.

malolo1
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28 October 2016 - 1:21pm
#18

I felt the same thing when playing at eurolotto. Felt there were controls put on the games on how much you would win and saw patterns and that the games did not seem random at all. I complained about it but they said they were regulated. I think the regulations are a Farce as they are weighted towards the casinos. The whole industry needs to be overhauled. I would apply what you said above to the games at Eurolotto which I think is one of the play cherry group. Combination of the weighted games the bad customer service would put them in the same box.

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