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17 June 2016 - 9:15pm

All Things Bitcoin

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I think I may now be interested in doing most of my transactions with Bitcoin, now that i have set up my account through Coinbase and have been testing the process of buying bitcoins from my bank, receiving a bitcoin payout, and depositing funds back into my bank account. (Much thanks to Ed and Sharpe who helped provide me with the information to figure this stuff all out, and to choose Coinbase, over another where I initially started an account,, for ease in making transactions in the US)

Since Bitcoin is new to many of us I thought it would be good to start a thread where we could share information on trends and to ask/answer questions we may have in our different countries, etc. For example, this thing is like the stock market in terms of going up and down. If I had bought a bunch of bitcoin one year ago with one Bitcoin trading at a price in the $200's USD , and let those bitcoins just sit in my account, I could have deposited my bitcoin back into my bank at a trading rate in the $700s per bitcoin. While most of us probably just want to make day to day transactions to deposit and make withdrawals from the casinos we play at, it would still be good to keep updated on the trends. If $100 of bitcoin went into my account today, I may not have $100 in there on the day that I choose to make a transaction . I could have more or less one week from now , or even an hour or minutes from now. Just like the financial markets around the world there are folks out there examining the trends and making predictions.

I felt pretty intimidated a couple of weeks ago as I tried to learn about using Bitcoin , how it worked , and how I could easily make transactions with it, all seemed daunting to me. ( all in the Banking Issues thread I started when I felt panicked about my bank sending back a payout check and charging me $50 !!) I suspect that I am not the only one that has been uncertain about using this method, so here's the place to ask our questions and keep each other updated.

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17 June 2016 - 10:29pm
#1

I have now attempted my first casino deposit from my bitcoin wallet. I had thought that the process would be immediate, and I suspect that sometimes it is, perhaps if you are in Europe? I dont know, but those of you who have deposited this way could comment?? Anyway, I went to chat at the casino after 5-10minutes and was told that it still required confirmation on their end and could take another 1hr and 20minutes to be complete, and that I should come back to chat at that time if it was not. I will let you guys know how long it takes for me!!

Meanwhile, instead of doing chores at home like I need to be doing, I have looked at todays trends. Bitcoin today opened at $776, had a high of $778, a low of $709, and is currently trading at about $742. Obviously , if you happened to receive a payout from a casino when it was $709 and requested a deposit to your bank account when it was $778, you would have actually ultimately been able to deposit a greater amt back into your bank account. If it was the other way around you would have not been able to deposit what the casino actually paid you and you would have to decide when you wanted to make your deposit back to your bank. I can see where you could do additional "gambling" with your winnings this way, for sure!!

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17 June 2016 - 10:31pm
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You're welcome casinodeb Smile I think it's a nice idea for this thread Thumb Up
Yes, as far as I know there are many people who trade with Bitcoins because of the huge variations in price, probably less than a year ago Bitcoin value was around 200-300$ and now is way over 700$ for Bitcoin. I think the expectations in general are that Bitcoin price will continue to increase it's value steadily or not because of the higher demand globally and of course the fact that more and more people starting using it.

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17 June 2016 - 10:44pm
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ok, sometime since I wrote my last comment , my bitcoin deposit was completed. It obviously wasnt immediate but it was less than one hour. less apprehension as I gain experience in this. Glad you like the thread sharpe!!

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18 June 2016 - 1:20am
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I was shocked when I saw the price of bitcoin the other day. I wish I had bought a few thousand dollars worth when it was down to two hundred some. If I had, I would have lots of money to play some slots with right now. lol

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18 June 2016 - 3:17am
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True that, hope!! In fact back when bitcoin started you could have bought bitcoin for more like $15 for one bitcoin. So many years down the line I am feeling a bit late in the game, for sure, but I think it will work well for my transactions since I would be taking a big risk with check with my bank. Although if I actually win in a casino that doesnt use bitcoin I may have to try it. Are you using bitcoin at all for your transactions here in the states?

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18 June 2016 - 11:02pm
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Ah, so I just noticed something else as a US player for some casinos. I noticed that some casinos offer bitcoin for deposits while not listing it as an option for withdrawals. For me , if I am wanting to primarily make withdrawals by bitcoin, this would obviously limit me further on where I play. It doesnt make sense to pay $60 for a wire transfer unless the winnings are pretty substantial. Perhaps in time the options will expand

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19 June 2016 - 11:38pm
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casinodeb wrote:

In fact back when bitcoin started you could have bought bitcoin for more like $15 for one bitcoin.

$15 bah that is nothing! The genius that I am, I decided not to buy some bitcoins when they were trading at $3 each. I felt quite smug when I saw the price inflate to over $14, then drop like a stone to about $2 a few weeks later. Now though... not so smug! Ah well, 20/20 hindsight is always perfect.

You're right about the "double gamble" with the exchange rate fluctuations being so wild from day to day. If you want to minimise that risk you really need to either play at a casino that allows you to play with bitcoins rather than converting them to USD or other currency, or play and withdraw quickly.

One lesson I learned last week with Jackpot Capital is that they can take 2 days to process your withdrawal, which is not so great if the bitcoin price went up $100 in those two days. Casinos offering this as a payment option need to process as soon as possible. The old 2 day verification wait just won't cut it.

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20 June 2016 - 12:22am
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Ed, wouldnt they be giving you the amount of bitcoin that your withdrawal amt was trading for at the time that they process it?? It seems that you would then be gettting MORE bitcoin on that day than when you made the request as the previous two days was spent simply reviewing your request, not actually sending the bitcoin to your account.

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20 June 2016 - 1:50am
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No it seems that they convert the amount that you are withdrawing at the time they pay, not the time you submitted it. For example. lets say I withdraw $200 on Tuesday when Bitcoin is worth $600. I should be receiving 0.3333 BTC. But if they wait until Thursday and the exchange rate has gone up to $700, I only receive 0.2857 BTC. Its the same dollar amount but obviously I would have had more BTC if they paid out instantly, and I could potentially be receiving less BTC than I deposited even after winning! Of course it could go in the other direction if the exchange rate fell which would work in my favour. Like you said, its a double gamble.

I would really prefer to deposit, play, and withdraw, all in BTC so exchange rates don't even factor into the equation. I tested a casino a few weeks ago called BetChan that allows just that, but only on some of their games, not all (it depends on the supplier and whether they allow it). But I don't think they accept Americans.

casinodeb wrote:

I have now attempted my first casino deposit from my bitcoin wallet. I had thought that the process would be immediate, and I suspect that sometimes it is, perhaps if you are in Europe? I dont know, but those of you who have deposited this way could comment?? Anyway, I went to chat at the casino after 5-10minutes and was told that it still required confirmation on their end and could take another 1hr and 20minutes to be complete, and that I should come back to chat at that time if it was not.

I noticed that too. When you make a Bitcoin transaction the receiving party relies on what is called a "confirmation" which means that they wait for verification from an independent third party on the network. The merchant can wait for 2, 3, 4 or more confirmations before they accept the transaction as being genuine. The more they wait for, the longer the wait. You can mitigate this by voluntarily paying a higher than default transaction fee when you make your payment, which will encourage the Bitcoin miners to process your transaction before others. The wallet I use estimates how long it will take to confirm based on the transaction fee you pay. I believe that this is becoming more of a problem with increased popularity of Bitcoin.

The reason casinos do this is to prevent fraudulent transactions and/or double spending the same bitcoins. If they don't wait for a confirmation they could be scammed. For example you could tell them "yes I just deposited 5 Bitcoins" and if they don't wait for a confirmation and credit them to you straight away, you could gamble them immediately and only send the Bitcoin deposit if you win, otherwise never send them. Obviously a casino can't operate like that, but in the long run they are going to have to balance the delay in making a deposit vs safety in ensuring the deposit is genuine to keep everyone happy.

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20 June 2016 - 2:18am
#10

Ah..... so I guess we just need to win a WHOLE bunch so that all of our withdrawals balance out!!! Sound like a good plan??? Wink

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20 June 2016 - 2:24am
#11

As for delay time.... I reference a $20 deposit in my banking thread to be able to process a bitcoin withdrawal and that one was in the casino account almost immediately. We will just have to realize that we may or may not be ble to play right away when we deposit.

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21 June 2016 - 9:18pm
#12

WOW.... Am I learning a whole LOT today!! Firstly the Bitcoin market has been dropping since yesterday and this has negatively affected my wallet as I had received a casino payout yesterday morning (when bitcoin was still fairly close to its peak this week) and did not immediately act on it. I hadn't yet decided if I was going to transfer it all to my bank or leave enough for another casino deposit. Also, I had to get ready to go to work!! So, when I came home from work, I noted that my wallet was about $20-$25 less . At this point I thought it might just be the low of the days market and I would transfer when it went back up again. (WELLLLLLLL.... it kept going down, down , down... Yes... most things are hard learned right??? SO, at this point I guess I am going to just leave my wallet alone and ride it out , hoping to transfer this when there may again be an upturn. Could actually go lower before this happens as I am understanding.... so I might be in for a wait!!

While I really could use the above back into my bank account, it wasnt a really really big amt, so I am not too terribly bummed over the wait on this one. It gets chalked up to part of my learning curve, right?? I WAS, however expecting my bigger and much more needed withdrawal to be processed and deposited in my Bitcoin account by now, and that one has been delayed due to technical issues by the casino. If THIS one had been deposited yesterday or today and I had not IMMEDIATELY requested it go to my bank I would likely be seeing a big loss and wouldnt know what I should do. Being off from work today and being able to watch this, and read a little bit online, I will be WAY more able to make a decision about my funds when they finally DO land in my bitcoin account.

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21 June 2016 - 9:20pm
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The volatility of Bitcoin value is the biggest downside to the currency in my mind. There is simply no surefire way to gauge what it will be worth at any given time, and that will put a lot of people off from using it.

Hopefully things work out well for you and you get those funds back in your account!

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21 June 2016 - 9:35pm
#14

I hope you guys dont mind my ramblings these days on this. I am hoping that my experiences might be helpful to someone else at some point. I also continue to welcome the insight and experience of those who have gone before me!

SO.... other things I have learned as someone in the US: With the time frame for transferring funds both in and out of my bank account being a 3-5 day processing time, I didnt yet understand how the #s would crunch when these transactions were completed. What I found is that if I transfer funds out of my wallet (sell my bitcoin) , it will be based upon that current bitcoin price , not the rate of exchange when it finally arrives to my bank days later. With this I am now confident that I dont have to worry about a loss on these transactions if the market changes . This is good , if I havent already taken a hit while funds were in my wallet or on their way from a casino.

On the other hand. If I am trying to buy bitcoin using my bank account I can end up with either a gain or a loss. In my case , I will take a loss on a small "buy" that I requested last week when my deposit lands in my wallet.

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21 June 2016 - 9:52pm
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I think in general Bitcoin value will be increasing in the next months, nothing is certain of course but I've read some experts predictions in which bitcoin value is anywhere between 600 ~ 10 000$ for a Bitcoin in the next twelve months Joking Even I could predict that you experts Tongue

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21 June 2016 - 9:56pm
#16

Barbadosslim93, you are absolutely right!! and while I likely would still be way too intimidated by all of this and may not have gone down this road without essentially being forced to seek an alternative, I am actually still seeing it as a potentially good way to accomplish transactions. This is provided I stay in tune to what is going on in the market of course, and mostly utilize what I am now experiencing and learning to make decent decisions. If one leaves only a small amt of "play money" in their wallet, then the possible losses would be more minimal and it could go the other way and end up being gains. Not much different than what we are doing in the casino , actually..... Also ,like I said, if I want to be safest with any payout funds, I can act quickly to get those funds into my bank account. One thing that can affect making deposits for play at the casino, however, is if the daily or weekly trading price is at its lowest for that time period, it may not be the best time to use those funds to make a casino deposit until the amount in your wallet fluctuates the other way. It does get tricky, but I still think that it can work well with the appropriate care and attention.

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21 June 2016 - 10:16pm
#17

Sharpe, sometime in july there is supposed to be a "halving" event. This basically means (as my wee brain now understands it) is that the trading blocks of bitcoin that "miners" can trade at one time will be cut in half, as there will only be a limited amount of bitcoin ultimately "produced" and allowed for trade globally. The cap is 21 million and is expected to be reached around 2040 depending on growth trends. There will be a halving event every so many years to help control growth.

It is believed by a lot of people that the recent highs have largely been due to speculation of what will occur when this halving event takes place. More people have been buying with the belief that bitcoin prices will rise. The market may possibly now be correcting as some people are taking their profits , while others may be fearful of all the hysteria..... OR...there are other factors I dont yet understand.

I too have seen more predictions of continued growth and have seen some throw out a number of $820 the as a likely ceiling for a bit, before some correcting, while yes, still others expect bitcoin to hit $1000 at some point. Not all "experts" and such agree that the halving event will be the most significant factor while others figure that less supply available for trade will surely translate into rising prices.

It will all certainly be interesting to watch.

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21 June 2016 - 10:18pm
#18

(sharpe... you probably already know what I just wrote since you have been reading as well!!! ..... I am just more "wordy"!!! )

BTW... I tried to find some forecast charts and didnt find much in an understandable format. I did find this one, although it doesnt go past october. http://www.bitcoinforecast.com/

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21 June 2016 - 10:56pm
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I'm not sure how exactly this halving events will reflect on the market. I'm not an expert at all and obviously even for them is tough to predict the movement, the fact is that Bitcoin survive over the years although many was sceptic about the chances, but I'm agree there's have to be some measures which would afford the fluctuation of the price to be controlled in some way although I think it would be tough.

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22 June 2016 - 5:22am
#20

I went to make another Bitcoin withdrawal from Jackpot Capital yesterday and received this. Sad

Quote:

Thank you for your patience regarding your Bitcoin payout.

We regret to inform there has been a delay of up to 2 weeks with our Bitcoin payouts due to a technical issue with our service provider.

We invite you to cancel your payout and choose an alternative payout method, or you may wish to wait the pending time.

Please accept our sincere apologies for the inconvenience caused.

Should you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.

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22 June 2016 - 1:46pm
#21

yup, exact same message.

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22 June 2016 - 10:28pm
#22

Could this "technical issue" in fact be another sort of issue? Like quite big fluctuation in Bitcoin price value, do you guys think this is the problem?
And Ed, what's your secret I don't know Seems like you withdrawing every single day from that casino Joking
Feel free to pm me about that Beer

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23 June 2016 - 12:42am
#23

Ha I wish! Previously I just did the minimum amount to test the process. I played a bit more and thought I would withdraw the rest now but looks like I am going to have to go back to using Neteller.

The exchange rate should not matter to them at all. Since I deposited with USD and all their games are played in USD, they can just buy Bitcoin and send it when they process the withdrawal.

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23 June 2016 - 2:47am
#24

On the other hand, I guess I would hope that this will not be an ongoing issue and is just a one time occurrence. I wonder if they are also doing their bitcoin things through china just like their credit card deposits?? I know that there were things going on in china that may have impacted bitcoin this week as well.

ALSO, again, if a withdrawal went through in bitcoin over the last 12 hours or so, and we didnt act on it, we would find our payouts less. Prices have continued down to as low as the $550s, and currently in the $560s. We have now seen a $200 drop this week. Of course, if we dont go very much lower and could afford to leave those bitcoins in place, we could also see those payouts grow if/when prices again go back up.

In other news, which I consider good for anyone with a Coinbase account: Coinbase is now supporting both paypal and credit/debit cards with fees of 3.75% for transactions. This is about the same fee that I would incur making a credit card deposit in a casino so its no different . You cannot yet use paypal to buy bitcoin, but you can use paypal for selling your bitcoin and getting your funds more quickly back into USD. The credit/debit card deposits will likely be better than waiting the 3-5 days for bank transactions as well, and without the potential loss during that delay.

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23 June 2016 - 8:21pm
#25

I meant probably that casino and maybe some of the others wait until the price of Bitcoin is advantageous for them and then proceed the withdrawals, hopefully this is not the case but honestly won't be surprised if some of them proceed that way.
The thing that annoying me is that there is not one united payment system in the net, I mean there are separate e-wallets but if you need to transfer funds from one wallet to another you have to use exchangers who first of all have quite high fees and then comes the trust problem.
I think the US users are even more restricted with probably the only e- wallet they could use is PayPal, hopefully all this will be changed in future and I think it will but I guess the question is when, the expansion of Bitcoin would probably help that process.

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23 June 2016 - 11:18pm
#26

to follow up on my info about Coinbase adding paypal and credit card options.... I guess nothing in this process is going to be easy is it?? These options require taking a pic of my DL with my webcam or camera on my phone for photo ID/verification. And well, my state DL has a hologram and a texture on the front that seem to make it virtually impossible to produce a readable , clear image when I try to take a snapshot of this. Veriification fails.... ARGH!!!!! Hey... but I am determined and there has to be a way!!! I think I will be such and expert on all things bitcoin and coinbase (or not, LOL) before this is over!!!

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23 June 2016 - 11:48pm
#27

Sharpe, I have been thinking about what you said and I guess I really hope that it truly is an overloaded server or something like that with all of the volatility in the market. If the casinos WERE attempting to wait for withdrawalls until it is to their advantage I have imagined these scenarios. Suppose the casinos had a lot of bitcoin deposits when bitcoin was at its high some days ago, then the value of their own bitcoin would now be much less, and they would have to payout more bitcoin for those withdrawals. However, I also suspect that they had plenty of bitcoin deposits a couple of weeks ago when bitcoin prices were still much lower than they are now, and it really should balance out for them and they should just be doing "business as usual" Otherwise they are not only conducting a business but are doing their own "gambling" in the financial market to try and maximize their profits. I would hope this isnt the case. What do you guys think??

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24 June 2016 - 1:05am
#28

That would be a pretty risky thing to do given the volatility. They could find themselves far worse off if the exchange rate moves the opposite direction.

casinodeb, to be safe, whatever you do don't say anything to Paypal or Coinbase about casinos or gambling.

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24 June 2016 - 4:40am
#29

oh I wouldn't do that , Ed, But thanks for saying something anyway in case I didnt know!!

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24 June 2016 - 8:39pm
#30

NEWS NEWS NEWS.... It seems that the Brexit decision during the wee hours of MY night/morning perhaps influenced bitcoin prices and drove them up .

The web seems to confirm that there were definitely technical issues so I do not believe that the casinos were delaying anything. Also my withdrawal went into my bitcoin account when things were near their highest and I didnt even realize it until later today until after it had dropped back down some. STILL , My bitcoin deposit actually reflected a GAIN, so I was happy about that. I havent requested transfer of any funds from my bitcoin account back into my bank account yet because I am actually seeing how nervous versus excited versus entertained I am watching the market for a while . I am sure I will make my request before I go out tonight though, as I probably wont chance coming home to see some sort of big dip or something!!

Ed, did you end up taking your payout by neteller instead of bitcoin?? Like I said , this turned out favorably for me in the long run so I am happy. (If only I hadnt ALSO gotten bad car repair news today though!!!)

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