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ushope777
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9 March 2013 - 10:32pm

How Does CASHBACK work?

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Does anyone take advantage of cash back offers?

I usually ignore these, because I don't really understand them. I see offers from 30% to 100% cash back.

How can they do 100% cash back? Are there conditions to these offers? In other words, what is the catch? Should I be taking advantage of cash back offers with deposits. Also, which is best: bonuses or cash back offers?

Just curious! Smile

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auCL-Ed
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11 March 2013 - 1:31am
#1

Yes there are usually caveats attached to the cashback. Commonly it is a set of wagering requirements similar to a bonus. So you lose $50, they give you $50 cashback but you have to wager it x number of times before you can withdraw.

Some casinos do not have such conditions though. If you can get say 10% cashback with no restrictions then that is pretty attractive.

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11 March 2013 - 1:34am
#2
CL-Ed wrote:

Yes there are usually caveats attached to the cashback. Commonly it is a set of wagering requirements similar to a bonus. So you lose $50, they give you $50 cashback but you have to wager it x number of times before you can withdraw.

Some casinos do not have such conditions though. If you can get say 10% cashback with no restrictions then that is pretty attractive.

I saw one with 100% cash back the other day. I think it was through my email from Lucky Red. That got me to thinking about this topic, because I usually just ignore those offers/promotions, because I figured there had to be some type of catch. And wouldn't 10% cash back be too small even with no restrictions? (Especially for those SMALL depositors like me? lol).

Thank you for explaining this to me, CL-Ed. Smile

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auCL-Ed
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11 March 2013 - 1:44am
#3

10% is not small, in fact it is more than enough to ensure that you make a profit in the long run, assuming the casino continues to offer the cashback once they see you winning with it all the time.

Lets go with a simple case that won't necessarily work in the real world because casinos are wise to it.

Say you deposit $50 and play a roughly 50/50 game - eg Baccarat. If you bet the whole $50 on the player and win, you now have $100. If you lose the casino gives you $5 in cashback. In effect you only lost $45. Play a 50/50 game for long enough where you win more than you lose each time and you have an advantage over the casino. The same basic principle applies to any other game, slots included, where the cashback is greater than the house edge of the game

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11 March 2013 - 2:16am
#4
CL-Ed wrote:

10% is not small, in fact it is more than enough to ensure that you make a profit in the long run, assuming the casino continues to offer the cashback once they see you winning with it all the time.

Lets go with a simple case that won't necessarily work in the real world because casinos are wise to it.

Say you deposit $50 and play a roughly 50/50 game - eg Baccarat. If you bet the whole $50 on the player and win, you now have $100. If you lose the casino gives you $5 in cashback. In effect you only lost $45. Play a 50/50 game for long enough where you win more than you lose each time and you have an advantage over the casino. The same basic principle applies to any other game, slots included, where the cashback is greater than the house edge of the game

Okay. That helps a lot. But you really would have to "have money to make money" in this case, correct? I guess I was thinking more along the line of slots, but the example above makes more sense. I can see where players COULD use the no play through type of cash back offers to their advantage. I am assuming the 100% cash back would have to have play through. I had never heard of that before, so I knew there must be conditions. I wish I had not deleted that email now.

I learn something new every day here, with your help, CL--Ed! Smile

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ushope777
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11 March 2013 - 6:04pm
#5

I found the email. Lucky Red offered 30% Cash Back, but this one 100% How can they do THAT? (I have never played there, because I don't think it is highly reviewed here, but just as an example)

OnBling

Get 100% Cashback Every Day!!
On a Deposit of $50 or more!
See Support After Playing to Claim!
Available 1x Every Day!
Cashback given on dep of $50 or more 1x a day as freechip for tables/slots up to $500 thru March 14, 11:59pm EST.

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uskianz11
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12 March 2013 - 12:13am
#6

IF ITS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE then it probably is. 100% cash back... to me that means "come and give us your money" because they have 99.99% chance of winning your 50$ or more deposit, TWICE.

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12 March 2013 - 4:55pm
#7
kianz11 wrote:

IF ITS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE then it probably is. 100% cash back... to me that means "come and give us your money" because they have 99.99% chance of winning your 50$ or more deposit, TWICE.

Yeah, and they have a 400% deposit match, too. But I do not think they get the best reviews here, either. They sent me another one today, lol

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auCL-Ed
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14 March 2013 - 11:59am
#8

"Cashback given on dep of $50 or more 1x a day as freechip for tables/slots up to $500"

Beware the "as free chip" part. Without looking up their terms and conditions I am going to go out on a limb and state that they are almost certainly going to severely cap the amount you can withdraw off that.

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14 March 2013 - 5:03pm
#9
CL-Ed wrote:

"Cashback given on dep of $50 or more 1x a day as freechip for tables/slots up to $500"

Beware the "as free chip" part. Without looking up their terms and conditions I am going to go out on a limb and state that they are almost certainly going to severely cap the amount you can withdraw off that.

That makes sense. Thank you!

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auCL-Ed
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17 March 2013 - 10:14am
#10

We just reviewed Pinnacle Casino which has an interesting approach. Instead of offering bonuses with the associated wagering requirements and lock-ins etc, they pay 0.3% cashback on every single bet you make, win, lose or draw. So you're earning a small rebate with every bet you make. The interesting thing is that you could play blackjack which pays 99.6% or pontoon at 99.7% or jacks of better video poker at 99.5% and when you add the 0.3% cashback you're almost playing at zero house edge.

And before you ask, they don't accept Americans unfortunately.

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17 March 2013 - 5:12pm
#11
CL-Ed wrote:

We just reviewed Pinnacle Casino which has an interesting approach. Instead of offering bonuses with the associated wagering requirements and lock-ins etc, they pay 0.3% cashback on every single bet you make, win, lose or draw. So you're earning a small rebate with every bet you make. The interesting thing is that you could play blackjack which pays 99.6% or pontoon at 99.7% or jacks of better video poker at 99.5% and when you add the 0.3% cashback you're almost playing at zero house edge.

And before you ask, they don't accept Americans unfortunately.

Of course they do not. lol Sad

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mtLucas
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9 April 2013 - 11:31am
#12

Hi there,

I saw this thread regarding the Cashback offers and thought i'd bump it up.

As you all very well know, casinos are giving out cashback on player's losses, and most of them have particular wagering requirments etc... which don't make them as attractive as they sound.

So Unlike other casinos, We are giving out 25% Cashback On All Spins and with No Wagering Requirements!
Players earn cashback every day and every week on all bets in our Video Slots and Slots games.

So that means VideoSlots.com gives players Cashback Regardless if you Win or lose - You will get paid cashback anyway even when you are winning! Smile

The way our cashback is calculated is that we give 25% of our daily profits back to our players. This is awarded by percentage, so the more you bet, during the day/week, the Bigger piece of the pie you get!

We pay out cashback every Friday with one week delay. ie; if you play on week 1, the cashback is paid to you on Friday week 2. The Cashback statistic is updated once everyday, and players can follow their earnings under "My Casino Cashback".

Here is an example of our cashback system:

The cashback is not calculated on the player’s losses, but on the generated casino profit for every single day.

So, if a player deposits €200 during the whole week and managed to wager €15000.
The Casino RTP for slots is about 96%. ie; the casino's profit is 4%.

So 4% profit from wagered €15000 is €600.
Therefore 25% Cashback of that €600 is €150.

There is no wagering requirements on our cashback money.
Therefore the player now has got €150 Cashback, regardless if he/she won or lost during their week of play.

So The More a player Bets – The More They Get!

Our Cashback system has been of great success for us, and been a great incentive to our players as it is the best cashback system out there.

So, feel free to register an account through Casino Listings and Play your favourite Video Slots / Slots whilst earning 25% Cashback On All Spins - Regardless if you Win or lose + there is No Wagering Requirements! Smile

Kind Regards,
Lucas

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auCL-Ed
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10 April 2013 - 2:27am
#13

Lucas, that is an interesting approach but I cannot believe that you are paying cashback according to the example you gave there. If you really are paying cashback like that then you are going to go broke. The example is misleading because it takes no account of the total amount either lost or wagered by all players. If the casino had only one player like in your example then it could not possibly have made €600 in profit because the player only deposited €200 (assuming they had zero balance in their account at the start of the day). So if the maximum profit was €200, the maximum possible cashback is €50, not €150. Imagine if I deposited €200 and somehow managed to wager €1,000,000, and you figure your profit from that is €40,000 and then you pay cashback based on that...

I assume what you are actually doing is this:

1. Subtract total wins from total wagers across all players at the end of the day. Set aside 25% for cashback if you made a profit. This is the cashback pie.
2. Pay a share of that cashback pie to each player based on the percentage of the total amount wagered by all players during the day that was made by each player.

If so, its a system that subsidises other players if they wager more than me, even if I lost far more than them. It favours players with big bankrolls who play low house edge games for bigger stakes (eg blackjack) who in theory should be able to wager more in the long run. The effect will be to transfer some of the losses from small depositors to the bigger ones, so I can see how it makes sense from a business point of view for you as like any casino, you want to keep those players that play a lot at bigger stakes. But I'm not convinced its as great as you make it out to be for the majority of players, especially smaller depositors.

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10 April 2013 - 9:37am
#14

Hi CL-Ed. I'm glad you like our Cashback system concept. Smile
And in addition to what you said, you are not the only one who couldn't believe this at first glance.

Yes, We are paying out cashback as i have specifically explained, and is Not at all misleading.

When players are playing with cashback, they are not playing with bonuses or any other promotions.
And if they have an active bonus, then that bonus must be either forfeited or completed before the players start to earn cashback.

Moreover, it has nothing to do with favouring players with big bankrolls etc. nor it has anything to do with players who are playing low house edge games for bigger stakes such as blackjack as you have mentioned, as i have already explained in my previous post, that we give cashabck Solely on Categories - Video Slots and Slots. [*Progressive Jackpots are also not included]

So as you can see, this has nothing to do with transfering any losses from small depositors to the bigger ones etc.

And I can understand your thought of our system at first sight...
It is Truly the Best Cashback System out there yet and We are the First Casino to give Cashback On All Spins - Regardless if players Win or lose and without any wagering requirements.

So Believe it or Not... that's the way our cashback system works.

It's simple - the more a player wagers, the bigger a piece of the pie they will get. Smile

And so ofcourse a players who deposits more, or deposits big has more chance to wager more, which therefor brings the reasoning back to - the more a player wagers, the bigger a piece of the pie they will get.

Kind Regards,
Lucas

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auCL-Ed
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12 April 2013 - 5:13am
#15

I didn't say I liked it. Please don't put words into my mouth. This forum does not exist to promote your business, so if you post here in an attempt to market your casino and you are asked to clarify something then I would appreciate if you did instead of ignoring the questions. I am attempting to get a clear explanation of how your cashback system works without the marketing spin because I don't believe that the example that you gave is a true representation of what happens.

The issue is not about how the pie is divided up (i.e. percentage of total wagers made by each player), it is about how the pie is calculated in the first place.

Your example again:
- Player deposits €200.
- Player wagers €15,000. No other wagers made from other players.
- Casino profits €600 based on 96% payout rate. ?? IMPOSSIBLE. MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PROFIT IS €200.
- Casino pays the player €150 cashback (25% of €600). ?? IMPOSSIBLE. MAXIMUM POSSIBLE CASHBACK IS €50.

Using that system I am going to present this hypothetical scenario, once again:
- Player deposits €200.
- Player wagers €1,000,000. No other wagers made from other players.
- Casino profits €40,000 based on 96% payout rate.
- Casino pays the player €10,000 cashback.

Are you seriously saying that this is how your system works? Surely not.
If not, is my interpretation of how you calculate the cashback pie in my previous post correct?

I did not realise that only slot machines counted. Thanks for correcting me. It still favours players that wager more, irrespective of whether they win or lose. On average that is going to be players with larger bankrolls. So I'm sticking by my statement that the little guys are not going to do well under this system, nor is it fair or equitable. Players with small bankrolls that wager less and lose are going to get very little compared with a player with a bigger bankroll that wagers more and wins.

Yours isn't the first casino to give cashback on all spins. Cashback is for all intents and purposes the same thing as a comp points program which casinos have been doing for decades. Earlier in this thread we mentioned Pinnacle Casino that pays a direct cashback based on every wager made where players earn a flat 0.3% cashback on every spin or hand, regardless of whether they win or lose, the amount wagered, or whether the casino makes a profit.

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12 April 2013 - 1:01pm
#16

Hi CL-Ed, Sorry if I misunderstood you. it’s my pleasure to clarify anything that anyone on this or any forum would like to be helped out with, as that is why I am here in the first place. And if I can assist and clarify furthermore any information that you or anyone else may need, I will without a doubt do so gladly. Smile

So, Yes, your example is correct, if you manage to wager 1,000,000. In Video Slots and Slots, You will receive approximately €10,000 In Cashback.

This is the same concept of Poker Rakeback.

Kind Regards,
Lucas

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12 April 2013 - 9:55pm
#17

Gee wow. Thank you for clarifying that example, and I apologise for saying the example was misleading. I just could not believe that you would be paying it like that.

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30 April 2013 - 2:44pm
#18

Hey CL-Ed, no worries mate, you're very welcome. And don't worry about it.

Hope you're all good buddy, Have a great day!

Cheers Smile
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