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usRodaaf282
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15 October 2010 - 1:14am

No longer eligible for bonus

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A couple of weeks ago, I was advised by Cherry Red that I was no longer eligible for their bonus (or even their comp points). I tried to find out why, but I was only told that it was management's decision.

I found this extremely unusual since I held accounts at not only Cherry Red, but also at Rushmore and Slots Oasis. I played at Cherry Red and Rushmore on a regular basis and played at Slots Oasis on occassion. I have never committed fraud, software manipulation, bonus abuse etc. Since am a daily player and play at many casinos, this really did not bother me. However, if they were not going to provide me with the courtesy of a straight answer, I decided they would not get another penny out of me either! So, I requested that my accounts be closed at all three casinos.

Still, I cannot help but wonder why. Is it possible that I have been winning more than I have been depositing? Would they pull the bonuses for that reason? Has this happened to anyone else at this same casino?
I don't know

rsCatFace
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15 October 2010 - 8:30am
#1

Hmmm, did you use a great number of no deposit bonuses? Or were you in for a big cashout on a bonus recently? Those could be some of the reasons why they bonus banned you.

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auCL-Ed
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15 October 2010 - 11:55am
#2

It happens. I have been bonus banned at most Playtech casinos after winning on quite a few bonuses. But not at Cherry Red or others in that group, or any other RTG casinos for that matter. It sounds strange that they will not even give you an explanation, their service is usually very good.

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usRodaaf282
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16 October 2010 - 2:49am
#3

I rarely, rarely play "no deposit" bonuses, and I do not remember ever using a bonus like that at Cherry Red. I have never had a "big" cash out that I can remember, but I have made a few withdraws. Some of those were between $1,000-$2,000.

When I asked them why, this is what I was told (exact quote) "Casino Management reserves the right to deny promotional offers in the Casino at any time, at its sole discretion. This may be for numerous reasons including, but not restricted to, player abuse, suspected fraud and software manipulation. You are welcome to continue playing at Cherry Red Casino, but unfortunately bonus offers will not be available to you.”

I replied “Can you please tell me why I am no longer allowed to receive promotions with Cherry Red? What is it that I am suppose to have done? I am really at a loss here.”

And their response was: “Thank you for your email. I can assure you that no accusation is being made but unfortunately this is a decision taken by management and their decision is final.”

Personally, I feel that this was a foolish decision on their part. I am sure my money will be missed–I know I miss it after I give it away!

auCL-Ed
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16 October 2010 - 4:59am
#4

Obviously I am second guessing them a bit here, but I am fairly certain they have you tagged as a "bonus abuser". I have said this many times before but that term is total and utter BS. If they offer the deals they can't complain when people take them up.

Quote:

This may be for numerous reasons including, but not restricted to, player abuse, suspected fraud and software manipulation. You are welcome to continue playing at Cherry Red Casino, but unfortunately bonus offers will not be available to you.

That quote actually tells me that it isn't fraud or software manipulation because if they thought you were doing either of those things they would have booted you from the casino completely. And "player abuse"? I don't even know what that is. Is that meant to be you abusing other players, or abusing the service reps, or the casino?

I suspect the reason they won't give you a straight answer is because they feel they have some super duper detection process which helps them "bust the baddies" and they don't want to give away any information on what exactly trips it. The sad thing is your decision to cancel your accounts probably makes them feel vindicated. They have kind of put you in a no-win situation. I think you did the right thing though.

I'll shoot them an email and see if I can find out what's going on, and if this is a widespread thing or just a one off.

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rsCatFace
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16 October 2010 - 12:33pm
#5

Another question - have you ever been bonus banned from any other casinos related to Cherry Red? Maybe they were led astray by a bonus ban in another casino, and decided to mark you as a bonus abuser, even though you weren't using so many bonuses there as in some other places.

I agree with Ed, the only reason why they 'only' bonus banned you is because they think you're a potential abuser (a term which still remains undefined among casino reps themselves), they probably concluded that because you used a certain type of bonuses and cashed out on them a few times.

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usUsne
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16 October 2010 - 2:43pm
#6

I am glad you pulled out of the sister casinos too. Especially if you are depositing there. What really irks me is they don't even give you a reasonable explanation. Sometimes casinos attitudes are more than pompous. As if they have the God given right not to have to explain a thing after you have soaked money in their casino...........sigh!

Usne

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usRodaaf282
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16 October 2010 - 7:57pm
#7

I have never abused customer service representatives. This is actually the first time I have been banned from using bonuses. Neither have I been banned from a casino. Evidently, I do not understand the term "bonus abuse." True, I took advantage of their bonuses. Why wouldn't I? Isn't that why they are there? All I play are slots. So believe me, I need them since the minimum amount I play on a spin is $2.00. If Cherry Red does not want you to use their bonuses, then why do they give you 5 bonus coupons every weekend?

What is funny is every time I hopped on that casino (and its sisters), they would contact me by chat with better bonus offers--so much so that it was annoying and I had to keep closing the chat box.

I really appreciate everyone's input. It is helping me to understand. It looks like it all boils down to this: It is o.k. to use the bonuses, just so long as you do not win!.

The whole thing is just ridiculous.

auCL-Ed
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17 October 2010 - 11:17pm
#8

Ok I have a response from a manager at Cherry Red and it pretty much agrees with what we had assumed:

Quote:

I appreciate your concerns and have contacted CS to discuss this.

The player in question has been deemed as abusing our promotional offers and therefore as per the terms and conditions (explained to the player) the player is no longer eligible to redeem these bonuses which we offer as extras.

The players account was reviewed by a CS manager on all 3 casinos. There was a common pattern in that the player had redeemed double (or more) bonus money then they had deposited. As per the terms and conditions the casino reserves the right to restrict players from redeeming further promotional offers at anytime.

We don't make a habit of restricting players from taking our promotional offers, however this is regarded as an extreme case and the decision was made.

I would like to apologize to the player on behalf of the Casino and I am very sorry that they feel mistreated in this situation and that the reason was not clearly explained to them.

Still they could do better at communicating the issue with you Rodaaf282. Also I think a clear definition of what exactly they class as "bonus abuse" would be welcome. At least then there is a clear line in the sand which everybody understands.

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usUsne
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19 October 2010 - 5:17pm
#9

So basically are they saying if you make a deposit and the bonus with it exceeds the amount of your deposit money one too many times then your heading for a ban? What exactly is "bonus money"? Is it bonus as in a free chip or deposit bonus they are referring to?

Again the area is grey. Keep it real, keep it simple so we can abide by the terms. In the end both parties can be happy. You will have a depositing player and we won't fret over having the rug pulled out from underneath us.

I will say i do appreciate taking the time to even reply.

Usne

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auCL-Ed
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19 October 2010 - 10:15pm
#10

They are talking all bonuses - deposit bonuses and freebies.

I have actually had a few emails back and forth with them over the last couple of days. I've suggested they come up with some specific rules so that everyone knows where they stand.

This is part of the last email I received:

Quote:

It is really difficult to introduce a specific rule for this. Each player is different, no account is the same. Each players account is reviewed and treated separately from others.

I am going to forward your email to the correct department and see if there is something we could change in the terms to give players a better idea of rules surrounding bonuses.

But it is not easy. Lets say they did make a rule that you may be bonus banned if you redeemed more than double your deposits in bonuses (from the earlier email I posted). Well at Cherry Red the first deposit bonus is 400% so every player who claimed it would be over the limit straight away. So then there would have to be a time or number of deposits factor to take into account.

And lets not kid anyone ... if Rodaaf282 had not made a few cashouts there is no way they would be pulling out the ban hammer. That is the crux of the problem - they are happy to offer the bonuses until you have a few wins on them.

So I am hopeful, rather than expectant, that something may be done.

It is also important to note that they have not ripped anybody off here. Although I disagree with the way they went about this, they have paid Rodaaf282 before the bonus banning, which unfortunately they have every right to do.

It sucks but take it as a mark of pride Rodaaf282, you're clearly a disciplined gambler!

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rsCatFace
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20 October 2010 - 9:55am
#11

Casinos keep these bonus banning "rules" shady, because that gives them cover to do as they like. However, it's true that when you claim twice bigger amount in bonuses than the one you deposited, and you cashout every now and again, you're seriously in for a bonus ban. This doesn't mean they'll ban you as soon as you sign up and claim a big bonus, but if you've been playing for a while and claimed too many bonuses on top of your deposits, you can count on being banned any time now. To be quite frank, I've seen people getting banned for less than 2:1 bonus-deposit ratio. It sucks, because they were the ones who offered you the bonuses, but I guess they just feel like not enough of the bonus money they gave you is getting back to them. Still, it's their problem, right?

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usUsne
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20 October 2010 - 5:46pm
#12

I think what every casino should do which really seems quite simple. When a player goes to redeem a deposit bonus simply deny it and state that the player is not eligible at this time. Just like they do when someone tries to cash a free chip two times in a row.

This way a player knows to cool down on using the deposit bonus for awhile. But here is something interesting..........

If you won a lot of cash on a casino and never take the bonuses, would they ban you for winning more than you are depositing? I think the answer is yes. So if they are asked to fix one problem it springs a leak somewhere else.

Bottom line........they hold the power and most casinos clearly state that an explanation is not required for banning a player!

Usne

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auCL-Ed
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20 October 2010 - 10:14pm
#13

Well the thing is they are private enterprises and you have no "constitutional right" to play there. They can pretty much lock you out for whatever they feel like - providing they pay you what you are owed of course.

Its the same as land casinos that ask card counters to leave. Card counting is not illegal nor is it cheating, but if they catch you doing it you will be asked to leave the blackjack tables and/or the casino.

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usRodaaf282
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20 October 2010 - 11:33pm
#14

Thank you all for your input. The reasoning, Ed, that they gave you "There was a common pattern in that the player had redeemed double (or more) bonus money then they had deposited" is just plain silly. ALL of their weekend bonuses are 150% which you can redeem 5 times. Additionally, I am not "extreme case" in any way, means or form. Let's face it, it is hard to win on slots. The playthrough on those bonuses are hugh to boot. What are the bonuses for anyway? I do not understand how you can abuse bonuses when they are provided by a casino on a daily basis. In the case at bar, Cherry Red offers 5- 150% bonuses every weekend.

Essentially, it is what I said earlier, it is o.k. to use the bonuses, just so long as you do not win! So, I guess I came out ahead with this group of casinos! Thumb Up

usRodaaf282
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22 October 2010 - 9:10pm
#15

I had to give you all a good laugh! Look at the e-mail I received today:

"Hi ANN,

We noticed that you haven’t played with us for a while, and that’s why we’re making an offer you can’t refuse:

Login to Rushmore within the next 48 hours, and use coupon code 10NOW to redeem a great $10 free, plus get a MASSIVE 300% up to $3,000 bonus on any deposit you make, using coupon code BIG300

As one of our most valued customers, we want to make sure that you receive only the best offers we have available, so please enjoy this one, as it was tailored especially for you!

Claim your cash by clicking here

Best of luck,
The Rushmore Team."

Funny, huh? lol

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auCL-Ed
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23 October 2010 - 4:02am
#16

Thumb Down

oh dear ... sounds like the left hand doesn't know what the right one is doing.

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