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usUsne
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2 May 2011 - 7:26pm

Osama Bin Laden is at the Bottom of the Deep Blue Sea

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Hiya CL Members,

After 10 long years Bin Laden is finally found. I think it will be one of those marked moments that you remember where you were upon finding out. It was a victorious moment as people gathered at the White House and Ground Zero. A sense of justice has been served and hopefully it's a good start to curb terrorism.

Usne

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2 May 2011 - 9:45pm
#1

The most surprising thing about this is that he was still alive. I figured he was long dead and just being used as the boogeyman to scare people into justifying some of the more extreme U.S. actions in recent times.

I hope you're right about curbing terrorism but I think there is a lot more needed to stop it than just this. This guy was the face of the crazies, but there are plenty more where he came from and the western world continually attacking and invading middle eastern countries is not helping things.

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3 May 2011 - 12:39am
#2

I consider myself to be a very tolerant person and I have Muslim friends, but I cannot help but be joyful at the death of this monster. I was so happy to walk into work this morning and look at the television at 5am and see that he was dead and buried at sea.

The only disappointment for me was that we showed so much reverence for his religious beliefs. The man never would have afforded his victims the same right (if he had the guts to do anything personally, not brainwash people into doing it for him) and I do not personally believe he deserved it.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the U.S. did it this way, and we will look good to the Arab world for doing it...I just somewhere deep within me hope that the SEALS rubbed their bullets with pork before putting them into their magazines for their rifles.

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3 May 2011 - 1:28am
#3

Actually I think the way they have done things is only going to add fuel to the conspiracy loonies suspicions. All we're relying on so far is the word of the government that they killed him and dumped him at sea. There is no proof of anything (claiming they did a DNA test is not proof). Nutjobs like the ones who don't believe Obama is American will have a field day with this.

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usSavannah
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3 May 2011 - 11:44am
#4

There's many opinions floating around about the reaction of the American people. Many feel that the public celebration is wrong. When your country is attacked and family and friends are killed or forced to jump from buildings, wouldn't you dance in the street once the mastermind was dead? It's a sense of closure. The fact that terrorism is not over is evident but the single event of this death serves as personal justice for a country and people that suffered 911.

That said, it does make me nervous. These lunatics could view this as taunting. The death of Bin Laden leaves it wide open for those with the need to prove themselves. Sadly, it makes the world a little more scary.

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7 May 2011 - 3:14pm
#5
CL-Ed wrote:

The most surprising thing about this is that he was still alive. I figured he was long dead and just being used as the boogeyman to scare people into justifying some of the more extreme U.S. actions in recent times.

I hope you're right about curbing terrorism but I think there is a lot more needed to stop it than just this. This guy was the face of the crazies, but there are plenty more where he came from and the western world continually attacking and invading middle eastern countries is not helping things.

Oh Ed Ed Ed!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya know i could say about 101 things right now to you. But to be perfectly on honest with you today i am not in debate mode and like Monopoly i am giving you a "get out of jail" card free! But i am sure we will have some more fun times together!!

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7 May 2011 - 11:45pm
#6

LOL I don't do religion or politics! Its too dangerous! But here I go anyway Wink

I have to say something about the dancing in the street stuff that Savannah mentioned. I can understand why people did it but I don't agree with it. I remember when people were outraged when idiots were filmed celebrating the WTC attacks. And rightly so (the outrage not the celebration). But you can't claim moral or cultural superiority over people like that and then turn around and do the same thing. It just brings us all down to the same level, and I would like to think that we (the western democratic world) are supposed to be better than "they did it too so it makes it ok". And I share Savannah's concern that this sort of public celebration could just anger more nutjobs.

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9 May 2011 - 5:12am
#7

Ed that is one of the most intelligent things I have heard anyone say about this whole thing. In London weve had our share of terrorism and I think its safe to say that we'll never solve the problem by trying to kill all the terrorists.

Thats not to say Bin Laden didnt deserve what he got! But its sad that its necessary to go and do that sort of thing.

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9 May 2011 - 3:39pm
#8

Ok it's "Annie Get Your Gun" time........except this time she is aiming both barrels.

I will tell you what is NOT moral or intelligent.............

Having 3,000 lives lost on 9/11 and having the world around us say "You got what you deserved"! But let's have the bleeding heart for OBL and be humane. Hmmm sort of a double standard don't you think?

Before anyone goes casting any stones against the US once AGAIN maybe you need to understand just what the celebration was all about. The celebration was not for the blood that was splattered in his bedroom or the blood on the Seal's hands. The celebration was for justice being served. Ten freaken years this man responsible for killing innocent lives not only in the US but throughout the world symbolized justice. He was a mad man and a religious fanatical idiot. I for one have ZERO sympathy.

But we as Americans are use to this type of back lash. That's price you pay for being a Super Power. But what amazes me is there never seems to be credit where credit is due. And who RUNS to the US when the world is in trouble?? Who screams "where is the US why are they not helping"?? Pffffffffffffffff ............helping?? Are you serious? We are there folks as always, we are there. We run fund raisers in this country that are sponsored by the people and paid by the people and we raise millions and millions of dollars for starters. But let's not talk about the good we do.

The American people are a empathic people and i'm sure i speak for all us when i say we resent the back lash about our celebration. You are not attacking our government now you are attacking our peoples actions. We are well aware that the government has made some seriously bad choices. And we don't like some of those choices either and we certainly use our freedom of speech when it comes to the choices made.

We don't like bully tactics either when it's not warranted. I no more like what our gov did to Catface's country (Serbia) for one and the list could go on and on. War, hate and destruction of cities and lives are never the answer as far as i am concerned. But we all know it will never change. It is the way of man just as the cave dweller fought for their turf.

No matter what the US does they are and always will be scrutinized and analyzed under the microscope. And the verdict is always the same.........Damn them and their SUPERIORITY. But boy oh boy when another country needs help, everybody comes running straight to our backyard for help.

I can't even believe that this SOB was finally brought to justice and it was a symbol for all countries that suffered at the hands of this mad man and all anyone can pick apart is we celebrated in the streets. Are you people kidding me? Think up a better attack on us then that. Say what benefit does it serve at this point after he has built a army of people. Say........now there is serious threats against US and we are on the highest alerts since 9/11 and my prayers are with you. But then again this is the US right? And we deserve what we got coming.

As out National Anthem says.........."We are the home of the brave"! Ya damn right we are! And that my dear friends i will celebrate until the end of time.

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9 May 2011 - 3:59pm
#9

Now that's intelligence, integrity and pride! Maybe someone like me lost someone in 9-11. After reading these posts, I'm willing to bet you didn't suffer that kind of loss and damage. I am disappointed in the judgement passed within this thread.

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10 May 2011 - 12:02am
#10

Usne, I loved your post. I can feel the passion and I respect it even though I disagree with a lot of it!

You're right about countries calling for U.S. help all the time. The question is whether the help is going to the right places and for the right reasons. Think about Zimbabwe or Congo or Darfur or any other places where the western world should be doing more but has done little or nothing. But instead we invented a bogus reason to attack Iraq, which was not about helping anyone (except maybe GWB and his buddies). Afghanistan was justifiable in my opinion, but we totally lost the plot by going into Iraq.

CL-Savannah wrote:

Maybe someone like me lost someone in 9-11. After reading these posts, I'm willing to bet you didn't suffer that kind of loss and damage. I am disappointed in the judgement passed within this thread.

No disrespect was intended at all. When the Bali bombings happened in 2002 (?) and a bunch of Australians were killed, I know someone who lost her husband. It was not someone I knew well but I had met him a few times and it was terrible. I also have a friend from school whose father was killed in a gun massacre. I know it does not compare to losing a family member or close friend though. The problem with discussions like these is it can be hard to separate the emotion and look at it from all angles, especially if you have been personally affected. Its not for me to pass judgement on people's actions, but I am well entitled to say that I don't agree with celebrating death like that, no matter who it is. I know we are (or should be!) better than that.

A comedian I saw on tv was talking about it all last night and he skewered the whole thing. A trillion dollars wasted, 3 countries devastated, 100,000 dead Iraqis, and thousands of dead U.S. soldiers. But we got our man in the end. It made me think was it worth it? I don't think so, not at that price. If the terrorists' aim was death and destruction and war with America and the west, then we fell into the trap and gave it to them on a platter. They have indirectly succeeded in severely damaging the U.S. economy, and created a streak of fear, paranoia and hatred in people. Not to mention that all the destruction we have caused in Iraq that far exceeds the damage done in the WTC attacks is going to create more resentment and more terrorists in the long run (I know someone will slam me for saying that, but its true if you look at it objectively).

Now don't jump on me and call me an appeaser or terrorist sympathiser or accuse me of wanting to do nothing or saying its all America's fault! That is not the case. In future we need to be smarter about the way we deal with these things, and stop meddling in other countries' affairs where it is not warranted, because no-one can say that this whole mess has been a success. And yes, Mr Idealist here readily admits that its easy to say, not so easy to do!

/excuse my while I slip into my flame repellant, bullet-proof suit! Scared

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10 May 2011 - 12:25am
#11

Both sides on this issue make valid points. My opinions:

The U.S. is definitely relied upon by the rest of the world, and is almost always the first to be criticized when something is done against "popular consensus". My questions are "Why do we have to be the world police when everyone else is criticizing us?" and "Why do we help these countries with financial and tangible aid when they clearly would want us not to be successful if they could help it?"

Iraq is a moot point. It was a mistake to go there, but it wasn't strictly the fault of the United States or George Bush like so many people make it out to be. A lot of people said Saddam had WMDs, from the UN to Bill Clinton and in fact, he DID have them because we gave them to him (and used some against his own people) and we still don't know what happened to them. Whatever he did do with them he didn't want to say he no longer had them because he was afraid of Iran finding out and feared an invasion from a religious government like them (Saddam was secular). Bottom line: we shouldn't have gone there but hindsight is 20/20 and there is a lot more going on there then we knew.

Btw, Sarin was found in Iraq: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/iraq-sarin-stockpiles-found/s...

Afghanistan: Get out. Now. Al Qaeda is going to be F'd for a while, and we shouldn't be fighting the Taliban. Let them go back to civil war in Afghanistan. The leadership on our side is corrupt and we don't need anything to do with them. It is not worth another American life to deal with propping up a corrupt government.

War on Terror: We can't win this one with force. The ideology behind the extremist's attitudes can't be changed with violence. When democracy reaches the region you will start seeing extremism die, and I think it is happening right now. I was not a big George Bush supporter but one of his goals with Iraq and Afghanistan was to get a democratic government to take foothold in that area with the hope it would spread. Maybe it is happening because of what happened in those two countries. We don't know yet, and we won't know probably for another 50 years but it is interesting to say the least.

Enough rambling, I need to go gamble.

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10 May 2011 - 12:37am
#12

I am a master of 20/20 hindsight! 8)

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12 May 2011 - 6:21am
#13
barbadosslim93 wrote:

Btw, Sarin was found in Iraq: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/iraq-sarin-stockpiles-found/story-e6frfkui-1111112124958

Fair point, although from that article it says:

A Pentagon official who confirmed the findings said that all the weapons were pre-1991 vintage munitions "in such a degraded state they couldn't be used for what they are designed for."

So it was not proof of ongoing manufacture and stockpiling of new weapons which was supposedly the reason they went there. I have my own views on why they really went to Iraq but theres no need to start a forum war!

I am still glad that Bin Laden is gone.

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12 May 2011 - 11:28am
#14

Personally, I didn't want to get into this thread so far for two reasons - because I come from one of the countries that know what it's like to be struck by the power of the States' will to meddle into other countries' affairs, but also because I'm an empathic person, and therefore I feel genuinely sad about the unfortunate 9/11 events, but also have confused feelings about everything that's been going on in the world for the past 10 - 15 years.

As someone who suffered but luckily survived bombing and can still feel some consequences of its effects, I can only say that the death of thousands of people killed in 9/11, the thousands of casualties in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc, make me purely sad, but the killing of Osama or anyone else for that matter, doesn't make me happy either. It's a mad, mad world, and if anything was done right, Osama would suffer a severe, most difficult lifetime prison sentence for his deeds, people would not die for someone's political ideology or aspirations to get to their country's wealth, and other innocents would not be killed for pure revenge.

Frankly, I fear the killing of Osama, who brought so much suffering to all of you guys in the States, may trigger some more killing, and the vicious circle may, sadly, continue spinning... I can only pray for all the innocent people in this world to be saved and for all those who died to be at peace.

Hope no one gets me wrong guys, I'm taking no sides here, or referring to any of you in particular, just expressing my frustration that, even dead, Osama still manages to get to us and cause more confrontations...

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12 May 2011 - 1:12pm
#15

Great point CatFace. I can definitely see your point, and respect what you have to say. This world is definitely a crazy place and wrong and right can be defined by the point of view and experiences you have had. I have my own opinions on things, but always try to understand where other people are coming from and can empathize with them, even if I don't necessarily agree with them.

If we can teach people how to do that, I think Osama will not have won anything.

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12 May 2011 - 11:50pm
#16

CatFace you have nailed it. There are no winners in all of this.

I also admire how this discussion hasn't degenerated into a flame war like you see so often with topics like this. There is hope for us all yet!

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13 May 2011 - 3:03am
#17

Ok i am back the rebel with a cause.......just call me Jamie Dean.

I had a very interesting talk today and of all people a contractor who came to the house to do some work. What was suppose to be a 10 min meeting turned literally into a 3 hour discussion. We discussed the US at length and mainly the many conspiracies that go along with it.

I have to admit i am new to this arena and not until recently did i take off my rose colored glasses. I think the world not just the US has seen some major changes. We have become so controlled and slowly but surely the gov chips away at us. We are by nature an adaptable society and tend to go with the flow. As the years go by one day we all will look back and say "remember when". In fact we are all saying that already. Life and times are not what they once were and what i do see, i don't like.

We all have to remember that we are a proud people, each and every one of us. Whether you are from the US, Serbia, Australia, UK etc. we love who we are.

For me being from the US i do fight my own demons and don't want to believe what i see. It is hard to accept when you are brought up in a environment that you are conditioned to believe is a place of freedom, fairness to all mankind and a country that is righteous. Only later to realize that certain things just aren't adding up. And for the average American we are waking up.

We are fed a propaganda and for the most part what we are being told and what really is going on are two different things. Our news coverage is controlled. Our spending is controlled and our lifestyle is controlled.

I am starting to believe that everything that does happen is for a reason and is cleverly masterminded. The USD is weak for a reason. We invade other countries for a reason. OBL was killed after ten years for a reason. The problem is the reasons we are given are not the REAL reasons. We live within our confides of our own country while the world around us perhaps is seeing the real reasons.

But just as no one deserves to suffer blood shed neither do we. We have to keep in perspective that it's not the people, it is the governments that cause this. Prejudice only breeds the very thing we don't want........hate.

Usne

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