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Real live blackjack dealers vs online casinos

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cocakolakid
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31 October 2009 - 9:51am

What's your take in regards to Black Jack. online? Since I play mostly with microgaming operated casinos - I'll refer to their black jack. How is it that I can sit hours playing in the VIP room of a land based casino and placing bets that can range from $25-$5000 a hand. Meanwhile playing online I wouldn't even dare play $20 for a hand - for some reason I can't seem to find the confidence playing online. When you visit casinos regularly it seems you can pick out the tough or stingy dealers from the soft or more generous. Whether valid or not - this is what I sense - and the beauty is I can choose which table or dealer I will play. But online....it seems there is only one tough stingy dealer and if i want to play i have no choice but to have that same dealer anytime all the time. if the dealer was a real person i think someone would have shot him by now. - kidding,,,,
but not kidding about being frustrated.

CL-Ed
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31 October 2009 - 10:09am (#1)

I understand what you are saying - its the old debate about whether you can trust a computer program's randomness and fairness. But every land-based casino I have ever played at uses shuffling machines for blackjack. So while the dealer might look friendly or stingy or whatever - in reality all they are doing is dealing out cards that have been shuffled by a machine. You might as well get a robot to do it as it makes no difference, and in effect its no different to playing online. Now if you are playing somewhere that the dealer physically shuffles and deals the cards then maybe it could be different...

Online, the best you can do is stick with the casinos that offer published payout and RNG reports. Most Microgaming casinos publish these reports and you can often see them linked on our review pages if they are eCOGRA certified. The casinos have their games statistically analysed by a third party which certifies them if they meet their standards for randomness and fairness. That's the best you can do.

If that isn't enough for your confidence, I guess you could try a live dealer online casino. Play can be slower obviously, and sometimes they look funny as they use over-sized cards so that you see them clearly. Just be sure that when you are playing there is some evidence that the game is live (usually they have CNN or something live on in a TV in the background).

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cocakolakid
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1 November 2009 - 5:05am (#2)

My initial reaction towards the shufflemasters that were brought into the casinos was definitely negative - change! No one likes change, especially when it effects your favourite game. But i've grown to adapt to them and it does serve it's purpose as CL-Ed stated about eliminating the dealer as a factor in the shuffling of cards. In relation to the discussion of this thread, at least i know how many decks of cards are being shuffled and the integrity of the decks of cards and the shoe itself are maintained. Whereas I have no clue how microgaming simulates their shuffling of cards and actual game play - which brings me to ask the following questions;

How does their software simulate shuffling?
- various BJ descriptions indicate the # of decks - does the software actually simulate
shuffling with the # of decks stated?
- when does shuffling occur? after every hand or is there a shoe with a end of shoe
marker?
- does the shoe even exist? is the shoe also integrated into the BJ simulation?
- if it is, is it's integrity maintained? what i mean by this is once the shuffle is complete
and "virtually" placed in the shoe - is the order of the cards maintained throughout the
entire play of cards until the end marker is reached leading to a re-shuffle?

Through my questions, I actually describe the way I think a true BJ application should incorporate in order to give an actual simulation. A real test that eCogra should do, is not base there test on the randomness or payout reports but on the actual cards within the # of decks in each shuffle. to keep things simple i will use just one deck of cards to illustrate my point. In a true test...i should able to ask for a report that shows the order of the entire deck of cards in which it has been shuffled prior to the first card dealt and then the history of the game play to compare and verify the cards had maintained this order throughout the entire game until the next shuffle. this test should be completed in real-time by randomly choosing actual game play of members/players presently playing BJ throughout their casinos as to ensure the accuracy and integrity of the test itself. and eliminating the possiblity of tampering or sabotage.

to be quite honest..i don't think this is the way their application was programmed....but then again i could be wrong....but if i'm right..then i'm also right when i say the only thing that has actually been simulated would be the visual effect of the way the game is played.

CL-Ed
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1 November 2009 - 8:27am (#3)

Just about every software shuffles the deck after every hand. There is no "shoe" as such, the software merely shuffles the required number of decks then deals out the cards. Among other things, re-shuffling after every hand eliminates the possibility of the player using card counting techniques like you can in a land casino. So you can count that as a small advantage for online casinos if you are a competent card counter that is.

The order of the cards should remain constant throughout the hand after the shuffle - but this is close to impossible to verify on a single hand situation. What you can do is look at the statistics for your session in the casino software - Microgaming casinos will even tell you how many of each type of card has been dealt. I've seen enough payout reports and played enough games to be satisfied that Microgaming provides a fair game of blackjack .. after all with a house edge and no possibility of card counting there is no need for them to cheat players.

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cocakolakid
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1 November 2009 - 10:40am (#4)

The misconception of counting cards is that you will have such a huge edge that you can't lose. If only this were true...unfortunately card counting is highly over rated...a 5% increase to your odds of winning is not going to guarantee winning all the time. As for online BJ..other than the same rules of play...its not blackjack...its video bj ...and about looking at sessions..i can't wait until the day i video record one of my sessions and post it on youtube...slaughter after slaughter...unbelievable how the dealer magically pulls strings of 21's from fours, fives and sixes. Now that u mentioned it about checking the statistics I'm going to look into that and see if you can see why I would be so frustrated....i love playing blackjack..just not online...and now that I know how the cards are played...i don't think i'll be playing anytime soon because you are right with the house edge they don't have to cheat...they just legally rob you every time you choose to play especially if its'a new shuffle every hand. There are two accepted weapons a player has against the a casino. One is the ability to increase or decrease the amount waged per game. IIn black jack, the second would be the ability to witness and sense the flow of cards. in doing so you can make judgement call as to what to wager. this aspect you lose if the cards are shuffled each hand...you are literally going in cold every game. lol...no wonder i could never find a groove or felt comfortable playing online.

CL-Ed
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1 November 2009 - 10:03pm (#5)

If you don't feel comfortable playing then of course don't - you've made the right decision there (and you seem to be doing well on the slots anyway!). Have you tried playing with a live dealer while online?

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cocakolakid
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2 November 2009 - 3:00am (#6)

Yes I have tried playing at live dealer sites - but not enough give it a fair chance to comment on. I think I will be sticking with the slots online. The irony...before started playing online and going to land based casinos a lot I would never even put a nickel in a slot machine and would only play BJ or poker..now playing online it's the opposite,...i would only play the slots and poker...staying away from blackjack.